firepost

Thanks for putting that video on line. That is exactly what I am talking about. I really wonder why the LAFD chose the European Style Fire Engine as opposed to the Pierce Volterra? Beside the Pierce Volterra being a  Traditional American Style Fire Engine, the LAFD already had a contract with Pierce and Pierce has been a regular supplier to the LAFD so it seems kind of strange that the LAFD wouldn't just buy their "Electric" Fire Engine from Pierce?

https://www.piercemfg.com/electric-fire-trucks/pierce-volterra

The San Diego Fire Department did have a fleet of rear mounted Tower Ladders during  the late 1980s through the early 1990's. When I was last there which was in January 1999 a Tower Ladder was assigned to Truck 10 and Truck 28 as full time manned Truck companies. There were 2 additional Tower Ladders that were assigned to Stations 41 and 43 as "Jump'" companies.  For those who aren't familiar with the term "Jump company" it means that there is only one full time crew assigned to a fire station however there is more then one fire apparatus assigned to that station  and depending on the dispatch assignment the crew will man the fire unit or apparatus that in needed at the the time. So if a Ladder company was requested at the Stations 41 or 43 their Engine crews would jump onto the Ladder company and the Engine would go out of service until the Ladder returned. 
In early 1999 Truck 14 was using a Pierce Snorkel as it's regularly assigned Truck apparatus also. Ladder 5 was also a Jump company however they were using a 1980 Seagrave  rear mounted 100 foot Aerial Ladder.
The 4 Tower Ladders were Spartan /LTI's . One was a 1986 model and 3 were 1989 models.
Even though in early 1999 Trucks 10,28 41 and 43 were assigned Tower Ladders to my understanding  Truck 1 had one that was Originally assigned to it however in 1999 Truck 1 was using a Tillered Aerial Ladder.
It's no secret that San Diego did have problems making an adequate financial commitment to their fire department and  only in recent years they have been catching up and adding new  stations and putting new companies in service so I would imagine that  perhaps the reason that they have purchased no new Tower Ladders is because  straight Aerial Ladders are not as expensive and it was probably both easier and cheaper to purchase a standardized fleet of straight Aerial Ladder Trucks.
As far as using them  on EMS runs given, the weight of a Tower Ladder company there are ways to get around that issue. Here are 2 examples, Phoenix Arizona  has  2nd piece known as a Ladder Tender which is assigned to each of their 14 current Truck companies and if the Truck is assigned to an EMS run the crew uses the Ladder Tender (which is really a medium duty rescue squad) instead if the Aerial or Tower Ladder apparatus.  A 2nd example is that of San Antonio Texas. In San Antonio Texas most their fire stations which has a Ladder company assign also has a small SUV assigned to the Station which is designated as a Squad unit and if an EMS run comes in to that station one man from the Engine and one man from the Truck responds w with the Squad SUV so that they don't have to run with the Heavier Ladder or Engine company most of the time.

 Thanks for the information California Red. I myself I am an avid follower of the the San Diego  fire department and I know that they have finally been expanding and adding  more stations which happen to be long overdue. When I was last there the fire apparatus was mainly white over red and believe it or not San Diego still owned 4 Tower Ladders of which 2 were fully manned Truck companies and the other 2 were "Jump companies" In case you don't know a Jump company is a fire company that shares it crew with another fire company located in the same station and when it is requested or needed the crew (usually from the Engine) "Jumps" on board the Truck or special unit and then they become the crew of the other company. When I was last in San DIego Trucks 28 and Trucks 10 were assigned Tower Ladders and according to what I had read there was a Tower Ladder at Station 41 which was a Jump Unit and there was also a Tower Ladder at Station 43 which was also supposed to be a Jump company and there was also a Seagrave rearmounted Aerial Ladder Truck at Station 5 which was also supposed to be a Jump company. There was no Truck 11 at that time either however Truck 14 was assigned a Snorkel as it's apparatus.
I  have been trying to keep up to date with what is happening in San Diego so can you tell me if there is an Ambulance 35 at Station 35 yet ? I have seen somewhere where it says that there is an Ambulance 35 but I have seen other things that don't say that. When I was last there Rural Metro had  just taken over the EMS service and there were somewhere around 27 or 28 Ambulances assigned to some fire stations while there was another 6 to 9 Ambulances that ran out of repair shops at Station 28 and they went on duty during the day and early evening and they would fan out across the city and be used to fill in where they were needed. They were also known as Flex units which meant that they were flexibly deployed during the busier hours. They are also known in some places as "dynamic deployment units"  or sometime called "power shift units". If I am correct only ALS ambulance were located at some of the fire stations while the BLS (basic life support ) Ambulances were either  stationed at Hospitals or out on the street somewhere.  Thanks.

California Red I agree that it would be nice if Chicago had a message board however when ever there is a new posting on the Chicago Area fire departments website is there is an open "Comments" section that you are allowed to post observations and opinions on and the comment section does end up being a message board  as long as the message is related more or less to the article or the photo that was posted. The FDNY does have an excellent "Forum Board" where not only can you post questions but  the there are many forums on that board that allows to you categorize the  your question or statement as to what it is related to on the FDNY. 
I don't really know if you are into the New York City Fire Department or not but if you are here's the link https://www.nycfire.net/forums/.
Getting back to Chicago's Jump Bag Units, as someone else mentioned here  the Jump Bags that they are talking about are these large inflatable "Cushion" type bags for Jumpers or people threatening to Jump. They are  what have replaced the the old time lifenets that Truck companies used carry as standard equipment. 
Chicago unit 562 was unfortunately taken out of service  3 years ago on September 5th 2017. I really don't understand why it was taken out of service because it was an unmanned unit and when it would be needed the Truck or Engine company that it was quartered with would drive the Van to the scene if requested. Chicago  was running with 3 Jump Bag Units and they were designated 561,562 and 563. 561 was located more or less in the Center of City at Engine 4 and Tower Ladder 10's house on the near north side,562 was located on the northside at Engine 124 and Truck 38's quarters and 563 was located on the southside at Engine 47 and Truck 30's quarters. As far as I know units 561 and 563 are still in service but the North Side Jump bag unit 562 is not in service. When the jump bag units were initially put in service around the late 80s they were colocated with Chicago's Squad companies of which there were  and still are 4 of them in service. Three of them are in the City Proper  and a 4th one is located at O"Hare International Airport which is on City Property but is actually beyond the City Limits. Since the around 2000 the Air Bag Units were relocated else where.
Since you are from Los Angeles, I presume, I have a question for you. I know that several of  your Truck companies (Light Forces) have been equipped with Jump Bags and I was wondering if the Jump Bags are actually  carried on the Ladder Trucks or is there seperate vehicle or Van that goes with the Light Force when the Jump Bags are needed.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
On the subject of Lifting Airbags I know that the Ladder units in Los Angeles carry alot of equipment on them. Chicago's Trucks do  carry Hurst tools on them however the Truck companies here don't carry any Airbags for lifting and only our Squads carry the Lifting bags. I think that it would be a good idea if some of Chicago's Truck companies would carry Lifting bags like they do in Los Angeles so that we wouldn't always have to wait for a Squad company to show up in order to use the bags.
 
 
 
 

I am aware that San Diego has been contracting  EMS ambulance service with a private contractor since at least the 1990's. The contractor had been Rural Metro until AMR had acquired Rural Metro to my understanding. I recall that when Rural Metro had run the Ambulances there about 29 of the Ambulances that were Stationed at various fire stations and there were another 6 to 10 Ambulances that ran during the busier hours from the afternoon through the  late evening and were what is known a "dynamic deployment" which  means that those ambulances were basically located at locations out on the streets and those Ambulances were shifted around depending on where most of the call volume was so they would be moved to where there were gaps in coverage at the time day.
My  question is are the most of the full time ambulances still located at designated fire stations and are there still part time ambulances that are only in service during the busier hours and are they  located at street locations or are they also located at the fire stations?
I know that in the late 1990s  when Rural Metro had the contract the "power shift" or the busy hour ambulancs had been stationed at the San Diego Fire repair shops when they weren't on duty and they  would deploy from the Shops on Kearney Villa road and would fan out around the city when they would go into service in the midday time.
Does San Diego still run with designated BLS ambulances and do they run from firestations or are they located at hospitals or at street locations also?
Do you have the amount of and the current locations of  San Diegos Ambulance Units. 
Does Station 35 currently run with an Ambulance in its district and does Station 29 still run with 2 Ambulances? I recall that in the late 1990s an Ambulance had run out of LIndbergh FIeld out of the ARFF house and that it was designated as Medic 63. Is it still located and running out of Lindbergh Field?
Thanks.

Santa Fe Springs Truck 811 runs a Pierce platform.

I think a mixture of platforms and straight ladders is the way to go in San Diego.  Platforms are safer for FF's at top, are better to affect raised rescues.  TDA's are good for maneuverability as mentioned above.  i believe the TDA's have more storage capacity great for storing all the rescue tools these days.  The newer Pierce Ascendant might offer attractive possibilities/performance with its single rear axle and 107 foot ladder, or option of 110 foot platform.  Though you lose storage space.  Also, time will tell how the Ascendant holds up with miles/wear & tear due to the heavy weight on chassis, suspension, etc.. 

Rescue 51 I have noticed that also and I'm not from San DIego but I am a fan of the San DIego fire department and I know that the San Diego Fire Department was one of the few West Coast fire departments that was still using some Aerial Platforms in the late 1990's and the early 2000's. At one time they did own  4 Tower Ladders and they had a Snorkel running as Truck 14. When they went to solid red fire engines and started buying their current Pierce Aerial Ladder Trucks they have seemed to forgo purchasing any Tower Ladders or Snorkels. I know that San DIego was having serious financial problems and budget shortfall's during the recession and I also know that San DIego was running behind in building new fire stations however over the last few years it is attempting to catch up with buiding some newer stations that have been called for. Perhaps they were only buying straigtht aerials  because they were on a tight budget and the straight aerials were less money then a Tower Ladder. They also could have had some weight problems with thier tower ladders and  they could have had some clearence problems on some of the streets or in some of the fire stations.
This is only speculation however as I am not from San Diego.

 It's  good to see that  at least some fire departments near San Diego still use Aerial Platforms. 

This is something that Pierce can't afford to do (meaning have so many Trucks that don't meet the specs). The LAFD city contract can be quite lucrative and Pierce was lucky to get the contract so they really better make good on it quickly. I would figure that they would have had better quality control at PIerce especially after they were able to develop a sterling reputation to become the number 1 fire apparatus manufacturer. Here KME which wasn't known for quality service and American La France going out of business I would think that Pierce would be a lot more careful that they were able to get back into the LA market with the Aerial Ladder contract. In the late 90's and early to mid 2000's LA city was getting alot of their new Engines from Pierce and to be frank I am under the impression that the reason why they started buying from KME is because the city finances were so poor that they started going with a cheaper product. The last thing that LA City and Pierce needs is a bunch of Trucks that are not in good shape.

The CBRNE is staffed with 4 members at station 3. Station 3 is one of 2 Haz-Mat stations. Also at 3 is Haz-Mat 3, this unit is cross staffed with engine 3's crew. Basically what I have been told that from a Haz-Mat view the CBRNE goes on terrorism related calls and the Haz-Mat goes on accidental spills and releases type calls (Im thinking there's more too it). The CBRNE since it is fully staffed and like the Heavy Rescue doesn't have a set response district it is all to respond to fire calls. The CBRNE only has Haz-Mat related equipment as well as forcible entry tools and RIT equipment. They do carry a small amount of extrication tools and have a 300 gallon tank and 1 3/4" hose for small fires.

At this time the engines are on the spartan chassis but that's as much as I know on that subject. On building fires there are different levels (low, medium, high and commercial) low is mainly for a fire that's out or report as very minor and that gets the closest engine truck and battalion chief. Medium is rarely used but it's still technically a type of response but every fire in a building now is automatically a 'high' response (usually if there are reported smoke and flames and multiple callers). This will get 4 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue, 2 Battalion chiefs, CBRNE 3 or Heavy Rescue 44 (depends on where in the city the fire is will dictate which unit goes), air resource 1 and EMS 1. The rit assignment is always given to heavy rescue or CBRNE due to them being specialized and on every fire. That may change due to their response time. As for commercials that will be a high rise assignment which is the same for every department in southern Nevada- 5 engines, 2 trucks, 2 rescues, 2 battalion chiefs, CBRNE or Heavy rescue, air resource and EMS 1. County, North Las Vegas and Las Vegas run automatic aide so they all try to keep their response configurations similar to each other.

Ricardo the Snorkel that was at Station 95 was reassigned there after the Heavy Duty Task Forces were taken out of service in 1978. That 50 foot Snorkel was one of the 4 50 foot Snorkels that I wrote about.

Thank you "firepost"...that is some really great information!   San Diego Fire (city), now San Diego Fire-Rescue, had some snorkels too.  Here's one for an example, a 1975 Crown, served as Truck 4, and had a 75 foot boom.

The Los Angeles City Fire Department had owned 6 Snorkels. Two of them were full sized 85 footers and were painted yellow which was the color of the Specialized Apparatus which is also why the Heavy Utility rig which years later was renamed the Heavy Rescue was initially painted yellow. The two 85 foot Snorkels were assigned strictly as Snorkel companies. One was located at old Station 3 and the other was located at the old Station 27. After Snorkel 3 had flipped over in an unfortunate accident and  firefighter Thomas Collier died on July 6th 1970. Both of the large Snorkels were taken out of service. It was found that the reason for the accident was improper use of the outriggers.
The LA City fire department also had four 50 Snorkel/Pumpers that were built onto Crown Engines, the 4 Snorkel Pumpers had run as the Wagons of several Heavy Duty Task Forces which ran with an Aerial Ladder unit a 2 piece Engine company and a Single piece Engine company. LA City had been running with 5 Heavy Duty Task Forces however the 5th Heavy Duty Task Force had run with a 50 foot Squirt as opposed to a 50 foot Snorkel which ran on the other 4 Heavy Duty Task Forces.
   The four Heavy Task Forces that had run with 50 foot Snorkels were Task Forces 27, 61,11 and 3. The fifth Task Force was Task Force 9,however Task Force 9 ran with a Squirt. There was another Task Force that wasn't a  Heavy Duty Task Force that only ran with a 2 piece Engine and the Wagon was a Squirt that had run on Task Force 29.
 In 1978 due to a major statewide reduction in property tax rates which was known as the Jarvis amendment or Proposition 13 the city of LA had to make cuts in the fire department so all of the Heavy Duty Task Forces were down graded to regular Task Forces so the 50 foot  Snorkel Pumpers and the Squirt Pumper were removed from the Heavy Duty Task Forces. A few of the Snorkel Pumpers were reassigned to a few other fire companies for a few years however by the mid 1980's most of them were taken out of service. Two of the four 50 foot Snorkels had been removed from the Engines that they were on and the Engines had received new bodies and were put back in service with out the Snorkels.One of the Squirts had been assigned to Task Force 73 until the mid 1980's and one of the Snorkels had been assigned to Task Force 95 at the airport. Another Snorkel had been reassigned to Engine 40 at LA Harbor and one of the other units was reassigned to Engine 13 however they were out of service by the late 1980's.

Too bad, ALF had a real legacy.  It seems Pierce has fought the competitive wars and has solid grounding.  It seems to me KME is trending up in $ales though still needs to work out some quality issues.  I am not sure where E-One is going, it seems they have been fairly flat though I hope to see them sell well.  Spartan, Seagrave, Sutphen, Ferrara, and Smeal seem to all be that next tier of manufacturers.  
 
A bit of interesting recent history on ALF from Wikipedia, I was hoping they were gonna survive:

"In 1995, the company was bought by Freightliner LLC, which is a subsidiary of Daimler AG. Freightliner continued to utilize American LaFrance's original nameplates and designations including the Eagle custom chassis. Many of their Liberty products are built on Freightliner LLC M2 or Sterling Acterra chassis. ALF has additional manufacturing facilities in Ephrata, Pennsylvania, Sanford, Florida, and Hamburg, New York. As of 2005, they are the fifth largest manufacturer of emergency vehicles in North America.

"In December 2005, it was announced that Freightliner had transferred the ownership of American LaFrance to the New York-based investment firm, Patriarch Partners, LLC. The headquarters and main plant in Ladson, South Carolina were not included in the transaction. However, Patriarch Partners were allowed to use the plant until early 2007, when DaimlerChrysler began using the plant for assembly of the Dodge Sprinter. Under new ownership ALF relocated within the Charleston, South Carolina, area in summer 2007 to a brand new facility, including manufacturing and corporate HQ, with nearly 500,000 sq ft (50,000 m²) of total space.

"On January 28, 2008, American LaFrance filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection blaming problems with implementation of a new IBM enterprise resource planning (ERP) system.[2] On July 25, 2008, the company emerged from bankruptcy with a revised business plan to transfer the firetruck body building portion of the business to the remaining Hamburg, NY, (formerly RDMurray Inc.) and Ephrata, PA, (formerly Ladder Towers Inc.) facilities. The Summerville, SC plant continued to manufacture fire truck cab and chassis, but focused on vocational vehicles and the Condor vehicle line. On January 17, 2014, the company announced it was ceasing operations.[3]"
 
-Rescue51

 
Phoenix is a much more open city than the streets of LA and thus they have more space to maneuver. I've been to Phoenix and the city is definitely more wide and open terrain than the streets of LA.
 
If you think a tower ladder or any straight truck will fit through some of the streets in former Battalion 7 area, then I'm all for it. Some of those streets are narrow that a regular engine has clearance of just a few inches on both sides. While you may argue that FDNY encounters similar issues, they have used since the 60's so it's been a part of their operations.
 
I really can't speak for LA City but LA County has gone through a chief and so far no ladder towers or platforms have resurfaced. The dept did get a few back in the late 80's/90's and I believe they may have 1 left in reserve. If you have noticed, dver the years, all the straight ladders/quints/tillers have been slowly replaced by tiller quints.
 
LA City has gone over 43 years since the Crown Snorkels and they have not gotten another one aside from those 2 85' Snorkels. LAFD did try to buy a Seagrave Eagle platform back in 1964 but that was rejected. Unless the next fire chief is the FD equivalent of former LAPD Chief Bratton, but I'd doubt the next chief would rock the boat. 
 
 
/Rant

Who responds to the east end of Mesa for Truck coverage or does the second due Engine there act as a Truck?
The east end of town is where is there are the largest gaps in coverage. 

War dog I can't read your post it's too light in green. Try using  a darker color.

Mesabill I had made a mistake it is Station 6 and not 4 that was running with a 75 foot Aerial Ladder/Quint. I also think that you really meant that  station 606 and not 616 runs with a Ladder/Quint.  Am I correct?

Seth you asked the question that I have been wondering about for years. It is true that LA county did purchase two Tower Ladders some time ago and they did have at least one of them on reserve status. I had gotten in trouble several years ago for questioning LA City's refusal to try Tower Ladders so apparently they are happy using a 100 % tillered aerial fleet.
I believe that they find it simpler to use a standardized fleet of Trucks and also there are some areas in the Hollywood Hills and  mountain areas where maneuverability may be a problem for Tower Ladders and Tillered Aerials are able to get through the winding and narrow streets.
 As far not using Tower Ladders for the rest of city it really shouldn't be a problem as like was already  mentioned Long Beach has been using a Tower Ladder in it's fleet for quite a few years already. Huntington Beach was also using a Tower Ladder as do a few other towns in Southern California,
 I have do have a theory however. In 1970 Los Angeles  did have two large 85 foot Snorkel companies with one at Station 3 and one at Station 27. On July 5th 1970 Snorkel 3 had flipped over when it was extended at a reported fire on the eighth floor of a Hotel in Downtown Los Angeles. Fire fighter Thomas Collier was killed.
It turned out that one of the outriggers wasn't fully extended after an investigation as to the cause of the accident. Right after the accident Snorkel 27 was also taken out of service and neither of the two Large Snorkel were ever put in back in service. The Los Angeles City fire department did continue using four ,50 foot Snorkels that were assigned as Wagons on 4 of the 5 Heavy Duty Task Forces that were downgraded to conventional Task Forces in 1978. Two of the 50 foot Snorkels were then removed and their Engines were converted to standard Engines and the other two 50 foot Snorkels  were reassigned to to other fire stations such as 95 and 40 where they ran until the mid 1980's.
  I believe that the Los Angeles Fire Department management had developed an aversion to High Aerial Platforms  after the accident n 1970 and since then it has been institutionalized. Other wise I think that the LAFD would have at least tried using a Tower Ladder by now. It still is true however that in the Santa Monica mountains the Tillered Aerials may be the only type of Ladder apparatus that can negotiate some of the roads so if they did  use a Tower Ladder they might be restricted to what roads it would have access to in the mountains.
 

Mesabill , Does Scottsdale have 4 or 5 Ladder companies? I had thought that there were Truck companies at Stations 2 , 3, 4 and 11. I didn't know about one being at Station 16.
If I'm correct the Trucks at Stations 2 and 3 are Tower Ladders and they also have an Engine company assigned to them while the ones at Stations 4 and 11 are actually 75 foot Aerial Ladder/Quints that also run as Truck companies when following neighboring Engine companies, Am I correct? I'm from out of town so I don't always have the latest information about what's going on in the Phoenix area. I'm quite impressed on many of the departments in your area have large fleets of Tower Ladders and how some departments are even using Bronto Skylifts.