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Where Is The Tower Ladder Culture In Los Angeles?

26 posts in this topic

Besides the snorkels, I don't ever have recollection of LAFD using Tower Ladder's in it's modern operations.

 

Their 100% tiller fleet seems to work for them, and in some cases even better then TL's.

 

But I've always wondered, why hasn't LAFD or LACoFD tried using a modern TL in their operations? And, couldn't the "bucket" be useful in certain situations?

fdny1075thebox likes this

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Back in the 80's. LACo used rearmount tower ladders. They nicked named them the crain as they are so large. Now county is all tillers with the exception of a few rearmount quints. Even the tillers are quints. San Deigo only has one tiller.

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Believe that OCFA has some towers, Long Beach has one, I think.

The east coast departments are all using at least some towers in their fleets. Boston has three now

and FDNY, almost 1/3 of their aerials are towers.

 

As info, latest roster for Manhattan aerials(32) :

13 towers (mostly 75' (3 are 95')

14 rear mounts

5 TDAs

 

on multiple alarms fires, I have often heard the ICs call for additional towers when rescues are needed

so the east coast is seeing the advantage of towers, west coast not so much at this point

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I think that the majority of West Coast Departments and Hawaii are going to continue to use TDA's as their Trucks instead of Towers. Every Department seems to be happy with their TDA concept with the exception of Orange County CA  and San Diego Fire Departments since both of them seem to be continuing with ordering Rear Mount Aerials or  Platforms.

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I think that the majority of West Coast Departments and Hawaii are going to continue to use TDA's as their Trucks instead of Towers. Every Department seems to be happy with their TDA concept with the exception of Orange County CA  and San Diego Fire Departments since both of them seem to be continuing with ordering Rear Mount Aerials or  Platforms.

 

La Verne has a tower.

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Here in Phoenix Metro almost all frontline Ladder Companies are Tower Ladders, Phoenix runs 14 Ladder Co.'s 13 are towers and one bronto, all 5 Mesa Ladder Co.'s are 85' towers. The few straight ladders are Buckeye L703, AJ L264, Scottsdale L611 and L616 and a few reserve/spare ladders. Tucson is a Mix, couple towers and several rear mounts, Buckeye L703 only frontline tiller.

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Mesabill , Does Scottsdale have 4 or 5 Ladder companies? I had thought that there were Truck companies at Stations 2 , 3, 4 and 11. I didn't know about one being at Station 16.

If I'm correct the Trucks at Stations 2 and 3 are Tower Ladders and they also have an Engine company assigned to them while the ones at Stations 4 and 11 are actually 75 foot Aerial Ladder/Quints that also run as Truck companies when following neighboring Engine companies, Am I correct? I'm from out of town so I don't always have the latest information about what's going on in the Phoenix area. I'm quite impressed on many of the departments in your area have large fleets of Tower Ladders and how some departments are even using Bronto Skylifts.

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 Seth you asked the question that I have been wondering about for years. It is true that LA county did purchase two Tower Ladders some time ago and they did have at least one of them on reserve status. I had gotten in trouble several years ago for questioning LA City's refusal to try Tower Ladders so apparently they are happy using a 100 % tillered aerial fleet.

I believe that they find it simpler to use a standardized fleet of Trucks and also there are some areas in the Hollywood Hills and  mountain areas where maneuverability may be a problem for Tower Ladders and Tillered Aerials are able to get through the winding and narrow streets.

 As far not using Tower Ladders for the rest of city it really shouldn't be a problem as like was already  mentioned Long Beach has been using a Tower Ladder in it's fleet for quite a few years already. Huntington Beach was also using a Tower Ladder as do a few other towns in Southern California,

 I have do have a theory however. In 1970 Los Angeles  did have two large 85 foot Snorkel companies with one at Station 3 and one at Station 27. On July 5th 1970 Snorkel 3 had flipped over when it was extended at a reported fire on the eighth floor of a Hotel in Downtown Los Angeles. Fire fighter Thomas Collier was killed.

It turned out that one of the outriggers wasn't fully extended after an investigation as to the cause of the accident. Right after the accident Snorkel 27 was also taken out of service and neither of the two Large Snorkel were ever put in back in service. The Los Angeles City fire department did continue using four ,50 foot Snorkels that were assigned as Wagons on 4 of the 5 Heavy Duty Task Forces that were downgraded to conventional Task Forces in 1978. Two of the 50 foot Snorkels were then removed and their Engines were converted to standard Engines and the other two 50 foot Snorkels  were reassigned to to other fire stations such as 95 and 40 where they ran until the mid 1980's.

  I believe that the Los Angeles Fire Department management had developed an aversion to High Aerial Platforms  after the accident n 1970 and since then it has been institutionalized. Other wise I think that the LAFD would have at least tried using a Tower Ladder by now. It still is true however that in the Santa Monica mountains the Tillered Aerials may be the only type of Ladder apparatus that can negotiate some of the roads so if they did  use a Tower Ladder they might be restricted to what roads it would have access to in the mountains.

 

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Mesabill I had made a mistake it is Station 6 and not 4 that was running with a 75 foot Aerial Ladder/Quint. I also think that you really meant that  station 606 and not 616 runs with a Ladder/Quint.  Am I correct?

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the answer for the Scottdale Ladders is:  Scottsdale moved them around a while back for better coverage, Ladder 602 is a dry tower downtown with Engine 602, L603 was moved to Station 606 as a stand alone company (tower quint and LT), L604 was moved north to 616 also stand alone (75' quint) and L611 stayed in place. Also technically Mesa now has six ladder companies if you inc. LT220 (201, 204, 206, 209, 214 all 85' tower quints). Ladder Tender 220 running a Engine with extra gear.

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I believe that back in the 90's, the LAFD did borrow a rear mount  ladder truck from the Anaheim FD, to try this concept again (FS 73), but I guess they shelved that idea again.

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Florence is copying Mesa with the quints, one currently in service as Ladder 542 and it will be going in to the new station that is being built from plans borrowed from Mesa. Then a new one is on order that will go in to quarters in the Magma Ranch area as Ladder 543, using Ladder 542's current mobile home until they can get approval to build station 3. I heard that they were thinking of going to Mesa for dispatch also, have set their radios up for it, but for present because they mostly run mutual aid with Rural Metro, they are staying on VHF and having their PD dispatch the FD. Rural covers San Tan Valley with 3 engine companies, (and are looking to put a fourth in service if someone donates a station or land) so Florence realized that a second quint was the best way to increase capabilities in the far southeast valley. The next closest ladder would be one of Gilbert's (20-60 minutes away) or Mesa's (same time frame for most to the area when 220 goes in service) so having the second quint will help this area continue to develop and grow.

 

Rural Metro is in two stations that communities built for their future fire departments in the Johnson Ranch subdivision (841, a very small 2 bay station) and in the Copper Basin subdivision (843, large nice 3 bay station). The third company (842) is in a small industrial area right on the border of Queen Creek using a mobile home for the station. All 3 are usually very busy covering the 80,000+ residents of unincorporated San Tan Valley.

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War dog I can't read your post it's too light in green. Try using  a darker color.

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 Who responds to the east end of Mesa for Truck coverage or does the second due Engine there act as a Truck?

The east end of town is where is there are the largest gaps in coverage. 

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Sorry, LAFD borrowed a rear mount from Anaheim fire back in the 90's and used it at station 73 for a while. I guess after running with it for a while, they decided not to go with these types of trucks.

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LAFD did use a Anaheim rearmount quint for a 90 day trial. As Lightforce 73. And again used a LaCo Tillered quint for a 90 day trial as Lightforce 58. Back in the 50 or 60's LAFD bought a Seagrave midmount but..sold it after awhile and bought a tiller to replace this truck.

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1st due Ladders to East and Northeast Mesa are Ladders 209 and 214. way East is AJ Ladder 263, South East Mesa and Phoenix-Gateway airport usally get Gilbert Ladders 251 and 255, Mesa will be getting station 221 out on the old proving grounds within next couple years which will have a Engine and Ladder Company, I suppect the Ladder Tender Co at 220's will be moving out there as a Ladder Co.

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San Diego County Fire Departments have a mix of tillers (Oceanside 2174, San Marcos 1471, SDFRD T1, Santee T4, Carlsbad 2275, Encinitas 2375, Coronado T37 and 1 at one of the North county Reservation dept.'s) rear mounts (Majority) and towers (Heartland T9 and 11, Vista 1274' Escondido 1371)

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About 10-15 years ago, I had passed by the LAFD Shops, and found the shop personnel and Brass looking over a Sutphen Midmount Tower, never was put into service.

Monrovia1 likes this

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I believe Truck 7 in Long Beach is a Seagrave 100' RM' Tower Ladder:

 

3664400928_478ae3b4ab_z.jpg?zz=1

 

And their rig prior to that:

 

LongBeachT7.jpg

 

Also, San Francisco has a 100% Tiller fleet for their Truck Co.'s. Back in the '70's, Truck 8 used a 1974 ALF Pacemaker/Pitman 85' Snorkel. The rig is still used by the SFFD as a Fuel Tanker Truck. The rig as a Snorkel can be seen in the film "The Towering Inferno". I believe, up to that time, and since then, the SFFD has not used any snorkels or tower ladders.

 

Here's a picture of the former SFFD ALF snorkel(now Fuel Truck) today:

 

SanFranciscoCAFuelTruck.jpg

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Word is that the Tower Ladders saved the City of New York from burning down back in the very busy 70s/80s. And if you've never seen NYC with its narrow streets and double parked cars, its a pretty tight squeeze getting anything through there, let alone a tower ladder. But those guys can manuver those big rigs through tight streets, or bumper to bumper congested traffic. Then pile a few feet of snow on the streets and you won't believe your eyes how those guys get those big tower ladders through. Just like threading a needle.

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