nfd2004

I also visited/buffed Detroit back around 1985/86. I had a few friends from the Newark/Jersey City area that were also buffs. I don't remember how we met, I only remember one was a police officer in Irvington, his brother ended up being a Battalion Chief in Elizabeth, and the other guy was a firefighter in Springfield, NJ. They were what I called "Professional Buffs". These guys had been all over. knew what company was doing what and what neighborhoods were burning. I believe it was in 1984 when they went out to Detroit to buff what was called "Devils Night". It was the night before Halloween. So I guess October, 1984. When they came back, they told me that it was unbelievable. There were 200 serious working building fires that night. They told me that they would ride down a street and had buildings burning on both sides of them and in front of them. And they said there wasn't any companies to respond. Just too many fires. Later Firehouse Magazine did a story on the fires of Detroit on that Devils Night. So the next year, I decided to go out there. They had every city car and truck out there patrolling for fires. Plus there were civilian patrols. Compines were teamed up to operate out of a few Command Firehouses throughout the city. It was tough to follow the action because very little activity was announced over the dept radio channel. You could hear a working fire going on but didn't know where it was. Because of that, it turned out to be a little disappointing and really wasn't at all like the year before. I think I caught seven jobs that night. A few because I could see them. I know they had more than seven though. Devils Night, 2013 saw about 40- 50 building fires as I understand it. The movie "Burn" tells its story. If you haven't seen it yet, it's worth checking out. And I think it's also out on DVD.

Thank you. I'll check it out.

Thank you Generic for your reply. I had heard rumor that it might have been digital radios that had the problem. I will pass that information on.

It has been reported that one of the events that led to the deaths of these firefighters were their radios. Is this a digital radio system ?

Post number 10 and 11. I thought we were discussing LA Fire Dept Lite Forces !

Yes, Thank you.

Thanks again.

In 1984 when I visited the LA area, I didn't see one burned out building. It was quite different at that time in the cities of the northeast. There were blocks of burned out buildings, vacant lots where buildings once stood, and always a burned out abondoned car in the area. It was just so different. I remember one neighborhood in the Bronx, NY where the only building NOT burned out on the street was the police station. That was the NYPDs 42 precient on Simpson St. Whatever the LA City Fire Dept and LA County Fire Dept was doing then to prevent the arson, they were doing something right. Because once a building burns, there's no tax dollars coming in to support the services and if it is a business that burns, people will loose their jobs. I just could not believe that in my travels throughout the LA area, I never saw one burned out building. Of course shortly after I left, I saw the news showing a high rise fire in downtown L.A. A few months later, Firehouse Magazine did a story on it. Here in the northeast, many of us who were called "buffs" or "sparks" would get together maybe at a McDonalds or diner with our portable scanners to chase fires. In Boston there was a Howard Johnsons at Mass Ave and Southhampton St. It was called "whip city" because many of the sparks would hang out there with their cars, all having large whip antennas for their car scanners on Boston FD and the surrounding fire depts. Bostons Engine 43 and Ladder 20 were right around the corner and those guys knew what we were there for. They'd always give a blast of the air horn when they past us returing to the firehouse from a run. For awhile (just before 1984) many of us hung out across the street from the famous Engine 82/ladder 31 in the Bronx, NY. There was a store there called "Angies Market". While most of the area was burned out and vacant, they did a great business selling goodies to the buffs. A friend of mine was doing some work for a retired FDNY firefighter who worked at that firehouse. On his wall is a picture he took from the firehouse looking out at Angies Market. My buddy asked him what was going on in that picture, with all those people across from the firehouse. He asked if a riot was going on. The retired FDNY member told him, there was no trouble. That's just a picture of the buffs hanging out across from the firehouse. Today the fires of the northeast have really slowed down. Last week a friend of mine visited that same South Bronx neighborhood. There are no more burned out buildings or abondoned cars. No more rubbish in vacant lots. There are new buildings and rehabbed old burned out buildings. In the Bronx that day and there wasn't one working fire. The most I ever caught was 11 jobs in one trip and that was only within a few square miles. I had brought a few guys with me and it was their first trip. As we left one guy said; "It was like they opened the gates and let us out". Closet thing to a Third World Country you would ever see in America. When I had made my trip to LA I didn't know if there were any buffs or sparks in the area. I would have liked to have met some. There must have been a few though because at one time I got a newsletter delieverd to my house. It listed some of the working fires and any new equipment. I don't think I still have them. The newsletter only lasted for a year or so. I can't remember the name of it, but if I find it I will post it.

So as I understand it, the 200 series engine may NOT always run with two firefighters. Sometimes, only the one driver.

Thanks for that info too. And it seems that the area of Engine 9 hasn't changed much since I visited that area many years ago. It was "Skid Row" then also.

Thank you "LAfan". that is what we wanted to know. Thanks guy.

On another web site (NYCFIRE) the discussion came up about the LA City Task Force and Lite Force. Is the second piece Engine (200 series) a fully equipped Engine Co ? Also the manning for that one engine is a driver only, correct ? And it will respond with the Ladder Co as "Lite Force #.. Would someone please advise us sitting on the side of that other big pond, just how things are set up. So if you can help us out, we appreciate it.

I appreciate that and I hope everybody enjoys them. Way back before the TV series "Emergency" was a TV Show called "Rescue 8". It was before color television and as a kid I watched it on the tube in black and white. It was about two firefighters who worked together on an L.A. County Fire Rescue Squad long before the days of paramedics. I am quite sure that it was the very first TV Series about the fire dept. And like the show "Emergency", which came out in the 70s, "Rescue 8" came out in the 50s but also was based on a firefighting crew working a rescue squad in Los Angeles County. Interesting that even back in the 1950s, fire depts were organizied into countys. Today, in a place like Connecticut where there are a total of Seven Counties, there is not one county fire dept. In fact there are 169 towns and cities in Connecticut, but over 300 totally independent seperately funded fire depts. Hard to believe, but the city that I live in has Six totally seperate individually funded fire depts. Boundry lines place a huge part into it. One side of the street might be one department, the other side a totally different department with different chiefs, officers, and members. There has been some regional dispatching but not at all based on a county wide system. As a result, services are duplicated many times over. I'm sure some may find that strange that so many seperate depts exist like this. In Norwich, Ct where I live, we have one career dept that covers a seperate area, and five other volunteer fire depts, all within a city of about 40,000 people in about 35 sq miles. But to get back on the subject of my LA trip, I would tell the members of these LA area firehouses how different things really were. But they all had the same question; "How do you guys fight the fires in the winter with that cold and ice" ? It's not easy and I told them, "we try to keep a little fire going so we can keep warm". (joking of course - really just can't wait til that cold night is over). But I told them (LA members) that in no way could I relate to the huge brush fires you guys get. Here in the northeast, we don't really know what a brush fire is like. ten or 15 acres is a BIG ONE for us. But I would like to pass this on. Hard to believe but some of the Biggest Brush fires I have seen were in New York City. That's right. I remember seeing one in Brooklyn, NY (has been referred to as "the Boro of Fire"). That large brush fire was in an area near a highway called "The Belt Parkway" which borders Long Island Sound. It went to a Third Alarm and it was the first time that I had ever seen water drops from a helicopter. An NYPD helicopter with a FDNY Battalion Chief on board, picked up what they call, "The Bambe Bucket". That large bucket picked up water from Long Island Sound and made several dumps on that brush fire. On my trip to LA, it was the first time that I had ever heard the term "Strike Team". At one of the LA County Stations that I stopped at, a member there described what it was and how they would assign engines from various parts of the county to meet up in one general area (stagging) to form a Strike Team and at the same time not strip an entire section. Here if there is a fire or incident where several companies are tied up in one area, units will be relocated to fill in some of the empty firehouses. Here in the northeast we are starting to become familiar with terms like "Strike Teams", "Tanker Task Forces" etc. I believe those terms have orginated in the west coast.