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Here is another recent TV interview with Chief Crowley.

This story was aired a few weeks ago.

Monrovia, thanks for  posting the latest up date to the LAFDs strategic plan.  One of things that you should notice if you carefully examine the details of the Plan on page 12 under the first 2 on the list of Tactics 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 it mentions  the need to "Complete a Citywide Standards of Coverage Analysis" which I had previously mentioned the LAFD has been undergoing. Based on the findings of the  Standards of Coverage Analysis the City hopefully will have more detailed information as to the redeployment of apparatus and resources. 

This Standards of Coverage Analysis has been taking place since April of 2020 when the contract was signed with Citygate Associates, which happens to be a major fire and public safety consulting firm which has  been doing major fire and emergency service deployment studies for a number of years for various fire departments.

Another point that I would like to bring up is the LAFD is still not up to the full strength in terms of  the amount of fire suppression companies that were in service before July of 2009 when the LAFD started taking companies out of service due to the recession. Before the reductions took place there were 101 Engine companies in service and 49 Truck companies in service which included 48 Light Forces and 1 single Truck company and currently there are only 42 Light Forces and 1 single Truck company.

Even though several Engine companies  were restored to service since the cutbacks after July of 2009 the LAFD is still at least 3 Engine companies short of what  they had in service before July as of 2009. 

Of the 4 Haz Mat Squads 3 of them were fully manned and only one was crossmanned however as on now only one Haz Mat Squad is fully manned while the other 3 need to be crossmanned when they are needed.

Here is a news story and interview with Chief Crowley on her first year leading the LAFD and her plans.

Even though that relatively  small piece of land just  west of the Freeway might be still be vacant it really doesn't look like a good location due to  its proximity to the Freeway. This proposed new station had been on the LAFDS wish list in 2006 when WIlliam Bamattre was the Chief of the LAFD. Under him there was a long range proposal and plans for both Fire and EMS (Rescue Ambulances) that he had drawn up however after he left the Fire Department in 2006 and especially when the recession had country and the LAFD had to go to the MODIFIED service plan where companies were taken out of service , that long range plan under   Chief Bamattre was disregarded.  While I don't have the developer's name who was supposed to develope that site for the proposed Fire Station 31   apparently nothing further was done about it as the work was supposed have been done and paid for by the developer who apparently defaulted.                      

52 minutes ago, Monrovia1 said:

Have you contacted the Chief Engineer, Mayor or Council person who reps the area to voice these concerns?

Monrovia did you watch the newsclip video?. If you did you would find that the City Council member was interviewed for this news story. If you click your mouse on the photo of Engine 91s house it would have linked you to the news story.  I am sure that due to the series of  reports on FOX 11 (which was aired in February) that the fire department and at least some members of the City govenment are aware of this.             

I don't know whether you are aware of this but the LAFD under former Chief Terrazas had hired a public safety consulting group known as Citygate which is based in the Sacramento metro area and they have been doing an indepth "Standards of Coverage" study for the LAFD over the last approximately 2 years. The last that I had read they were going to release some of their finding at the April meeting of the Los Angeles fire commission.  I don't know if the results of the entire study will be released at that meeting or if they will ask for an extension.                                                                                                                                                                                                               The Citygate group  has alot of experience studying and examining fire departments and making recommendations  for fire stations in addition to fire companies and other related details. Whether the entire Citygate study of the LAFD will be released at the April Fire Commission meeting I can't answer but  I am sure that it will probably be released as  a report within the next year. If you take your time and listen to that FOX news report you would have seen that the fact that  there had been plans in 2006 to build a fire station and that the population of Sylmar has been growing and aging according to the story, that  the need for an additional fire station in the Sylmar area seems to be pretty obvious.

A new fire station and fire company was supposed to have been built for the LAFD city fire department in 2006 by  a developer but was never built.  The City had even broke ground at 16320 Foothill Drive but the developer didn't follow through however the need for at least one additional station in Sylmar hasn't gone away and as recent as February 2023 Fox News 11 did an excerpt on the need for the Fire Staton which was supposed to be number 31, but was never built.

On 4/24/2022 at 0:45 PM, Monrovia1 said:

https://www.piercemfg.com/electric-fire-trucks/pierce-volterra

Thanks for putting that video on line. That is exactly what I am talking about. I really wonder why the LAFD chose the European Style Fire Engine as opposed to the Pierce Volterra? Beside the Pierce Volterra being a  Traditional American Style Fire Engine, the LAFD already had a contract with Pierce and Pierce has been a regular supplier to the LAFD so it seems kind of strange that the LAFD wouldn't just buy their "Electric" Fire Engine from Pierce?

The Chief ot the Los Angeles City Fire Department was Officially called the Chief Engineer for many years and that was part of the title until at least the  late 80s or early 90s if not latee. Does anyone on this site know the year the the Title 'Chief Engineer' was dropped and changed to the "Chief of the Fire Department"? When the Title was Changed was it done to simplify things or was it done for another purpose?

The New Electric Fire Engine really is more a European and a "Overseas" design. Most European and other countries including the Mid East and Asia have fire engines that look alot like that. If you notice the Engine company looks alot more like a bus without windows. There are other electric fire engines that being made more to an American Design and I personally prefer an American Traditional Design to this Overseas design.

Thanks for replying to my questions as it just seems weird how those La County Stations  seem to be isolated in the an area that is mainly dominated by Los Angeles City Stations.

No I wasn't aware of it thanks. I do remember some years ago like in the early 90s Sanrte Fe Springs did run with a Tower Ladder however.

On 5/21/2021 at 9:00 PM, tmfd604 said:

SFSFD currently has a new Platform on order as well.

In LA county's Station 110's district which is Marina Delray while they have both an Engine company and a Tillered Quint however, there is no Paramedic Squad assigned so I was wondering what does the LA County FD do when there is a request for EMS service? Does Engine 110 or Quint 110 respond as a paramedic unit so they don't have to dispatch a Paramedic Squad from a Station that is  several miles further into  LA County's jurisdictional area?

LA County Station 58 is the nearest county station with a Paramedic Squad assigned to it however Station 58 is about 5 1/2 miles further east in the Ladera Heights area, so  even  if  LA county were to dispatch Squad 58,  the drive into station 110s  district would be over 10 minutes and may even be longer then 15 minutes if the incident is on the farthest  end of 110's district. There are 3 LA City fire stations that are actually closer to LA county  110's district then Station 58 is. LA city Stations 63, 67 and 62 are all closer to Station 110s area then Station 58 is  and besides Station 58  being over 5 miles away there is no guarantee that the Squad would be available so if Squad 58 is not available LA county would need to dispatch a Squad that would be even farther away.  While LA county Stations 110 and 58 are located in Battalion 1 the stations in LA county Battalion 1 (with the exception of Stations 7 and 8 and 58 and 38) are so spread out and far from each other they might as well be located in different cities as the stations that are assigned to LA county Battalion 1 are not even in a contiguous territory like most other Fire Battalions are  laid out.

LA county Battalion 1 has Station 51 which is located in the south end of the Valley and then there are stations 7 and 8 which are located in West LA  and then there are Station 38 and 58 which are in Windsor Hills and Ladera Heights. Then there is Station 110 located at Marina Delray. Besides Stations 7 and 8 all of the rest of the Station in Battalion 1 service other areas which in most cases are not even in the same  geographical areas. 

Another related question I have is when there is a reported Structure fire in  Station 110's area who are the 2nd and 3rd due fire companies into Station 110's area ? Does LA county have an automatic aid agreement with the LA city fire department so that Stations 63, 67 and 62 will respond into Station 110s district or does LA county automatically dispatch  Stations 58 and 38 as well as Stations 7 and 8 into Station 110s area?

It is almost ridiculous that Marina Delray isn't given over to the CIty of Los Angeles rather then remain under County  Jurisdiction as beside the  Marina and some of it's surrounding streets that area is surrounded by the city on three sides and La City fire stations virtually surround Station 110's district. 

Assuming that Station 110s 2 units are equipped and trained as Paramedic units it would also make sense to have automatic responses from LA city fire department ambulances at Stations 63, 67 and  62 as the the La City Paramedic ambulances from Stations 63 and 62 are closer to Marina Delray then the nearest LA county Squad is. That's not to mention that La County needs to have a private Ambulance dispatched into their areas to do patient removals.

I was wondering if there has been any changes to the Category A response guidelines over the last year or 2.

The Category A guidelines for fire in a single family dwelling consisted of One Light Force 3 Engines , 2 Rescue Ambulances preferably 1 ALS and 1 BLS plus one or two Battalion Chiefs plus an Ems Captain. 

As of the last several months on all of the Alert run downs that I have read 2 Light forces were always listed in addition to 2 or 3 Engine companies so I was wondering if the LAFD has increase the Category A response protocols to include a  2nd Light Force now.

I have also noticed that on quite a few Category  B fires which include multiple dwelling apartment buildings and commercial structures that 3 Light Forces have been list on the companies responding  and I know that the minimum Light Force response to those fires had included 2 Light Forces so like in my previous question about Category B responses if the minimum Light Light Force responses have been increased?

I also have a third question and  that is which company assumes the RIT (Rapid Intervention Team responsibilities) at  the Category A and the Catergory  B fires. Is it the third due Engine company or do they assign the RIT Team duties to a Light Force?

In Chicago if the fire is a working fire a third Truck and a 2nd Battalion Chief will be dispatched specifically as the RIT companies in addition to a RIT ambulance. In the New York City they also will dispatch a third Truck as the FAST Truck which is what the RIT designation is called in New York City. On the LAFD dispatch rundowns  I never read about any designated RIT companies however I am sure that you must have at least one or two companies assigned to RIT duties as they have been an OSHA safety requirement  for  fire departments as well as from the National Fire Protection Association.

The San Diego Fire Department did have a fleet of rear mounted Tower Ladders during  the late 1980s through the early 1990's. When I was last there which was in January 1999 a Tower Ladder was assigned to Truck 10 and Truck 28 as full time manned Truck companies. There were 2 additional Tower Ladders that were assigned to Stations 41 and 43 as "Jump'" companies.  For those who aren't familiar with the term "Jump company" it means that there is only one full time crew assigned to a fire station however there is more then one fire apparatus assigned to that station  and depending on the dispatch assignment the crew will man the fire unit or apparatus that in needed at the the time. So if a Ladder company was requested at the Stations 41 or 43 their Engine crews would jump onto the Ladder company and the Engine would go out of service until the Ladder returned. 

In early 1999 Truck 14 was using a Pierce Snorkel as it's regularly assigned Truck apparatus also. Ladder 5 was also a Jump company however they were using a 1980 Seagrave  rear mounted 100 foot Aerial Ladder.

The 4 Tower Ladders were Spartan /LTI's . One was a 1986 model and 3 were 1989 models.

Even though in early 1999 Trucks 10,28 41 and 43 were assigned Tower Ladders to my understanding  Truck 1 had one that was Originally assigned to it however in 1999 Truck 1 was using a Tillered Aerial Ladder.

It's no secret that San Diego did have problems making an adequate financial commitment to their fire department and  only in recent years they have been catching up and adding new  stations and putting new companies in service so I would imagine that  perhaps the reason that they have purchased no new Tower Ladders is because  straight Aerial Ladders are not as expensive and it was probably both easier and cheaper to purchase a standardized fleet of straight Aerial Ladder Trucks.

As far as using them  on EMS runs given, the weight of a Tower Ladder company there are ways to get around that issue. Here are 2 examples, Phoenix Arizona  has  2nd piece known as a Ladder Tender which is assigned to each of their 14 current Truck companies and if the Truck is assigned to an EMS run the crew uses the Ladder Tender (which is really a medium duty rescue squad) instead if the Aerial or Tower Ladder apparatus.  A 2nd example is that of San Antonio Texas. In San Antonio Texas most their fire stations which has a Ladder company assign also has a small SUV assigned to the Station which is designated as a Squad unit and if an EMS run comes in to that station one man from the Engine and one man from the Truck responds w with the Squad SUV so that they don't have to run with the Heavier Ladder or Engine company most of the time.

On 1/30/2021 at 0:40 PM, pump305 said:

Old T7 Tower Ladder is in reserve for the next 5 years or so. Simply went with a straight stick on the new Pierce T7.

Thanks for the information pump 305.Why do you think that they went to a Tower Ladder this time, Was it the cost or was it really because they needed a permit for the weight of the a new Tower Ladder? I would figure that since that already were using a Tower Ladder that they wouldn't need a new permit,

SInce Fire Departments in California need "weight permits" for fire apparatus would in your opinion you say that that is an example of being over regulation, I have never heard of that before but that does go a long way of explaining as to why there aren't that many fire departments in California that current use Tower Ladders. If I am correct Huntington Beach still has one correct? I know that the San Diego FIre Department did at one time have as many as 4 Tower Ladders and at least one Snorkel. That does explain why San Diego hasn't  purchased any additional Tower Ladders but It might also have something to do with the price of a new Tower Ladder as compared to a Straight Aerial Ladder. 

I know that the Los Angeles CIty Fire Department has had a long time policy of Not Using Tower Ladders or Large Snorkels however Long Beach fire department had been using one for a while already. Since Long Beach is still keeping their former Tower Ladder 7 in reserve they could probably special call it on a fire or emergency if they feel that there is a need for one.

So I see that  it's been over a year since Long Beach had replaced their "Seagrave" Tower Ladder 7  with a Pierce rear mounted straight Aerial Ladder.

Does anyone know why they didn't replace Tower Ladder 7 with a new Tower Ladder? Long Beach was one of the few fire departments in the  Great LA area that had been using a Tower Ladder for a while. Was it an issue of having adequate equipment space on the new Truck? I had read that the new Truck seemed o have  more space on it.

Was it an issue of Price as I know that  tight budgets have been an issue because didn't Long Beach at one time have at least 5 Trucks in service also?

Would you know if Long Beach has any plans to eventually purchase a new Tower Ladder?

While Tower Ladders  aren't used by many LA area fire departments the fact that it had been using one  would have made  them having a Tower Ladder even more indispensable as if a Tower Ladder was needed the nearby Towerless fire departments could always call Long Beach to send their Tower Ladder on Mutual AId.

The Presentation is both on Youtube and on Instagram. Here is the link to it on Youtube.

The LA city fire department signed an agreement for this Standards of Cover study in April and included is a link to the results of the bidding process for the study as well as the agreement with the City Gate group who eventually won the bid for the study.

http://ens.lacity.org/lafd/lafdreport/lafdlafdreport1864140032_04302020.pdf

Here is  great video taken in the early 1970s of one of Chicago's Wooden Aerial Ladders which was probably built either in 1954 0r 1956 by the FWD corporation and is being pulled by one of 2 1960 Mack B Model Tractors that were purchased to replace some Older Tractors for some of the TIllered Aerials that Chicago was still using at the time.

On 9/30/2020 at 6:08 PM, firepost said:

The Chicago Fire Department had used Tillered Aerial Ladders for years just like many other big city fire departments did. In 1965 of Chicago's then 62 Truck companies 58 of them were using TDA's and the other 4 were Mack/Magirus rear mounted Aerial Ladders whose Ladders were manufactured in Germany by the Magirus  company. They were purchased in 1959 and 2 were 100 feet in height while the other 2 were 144 feet in Height and amongst the Tallest Aerial Ladders in the United States at the time. 

Most of Chicago's TDA's had 85 foot Wooden Aerials on them and only 5 of them had Metal Telescopic Aerials and of those 5 two of them were retrofitted on two older trailers that had wooden ladders on them when delivered. Chicago was still purchasing Wooden Tillered Aerial Ladders in the 1950s and from 1954 through 1956 the CFD  purchased 25 Wooden TIllered Aerials. Of the 5 metal TDA"s 3 of them were purchased in 1942 and of the 2 retrofits one was done in 1959 and the other was done in 1963.

Chicago began a large scale fire apparatus replacement program beginning in 1966 and by 1976 most all of Chicago's TDA's had been replaced by new Non Tillered Aerials with the vast majority being rear mounted ladders. Chicago's famous Fire Commissioner Robert J Quinn who had been the Fire Commissioner from 1957 until 1978 decided to give the idea of Tillered Aerials a last hurrah and in 1975 he sent 5 1954 model TDA trailers to the Seagrave company in Clintonville Wisconsin where they totally rehabbed and rebuilt the trailers and they also installed brand new 100 foot Metal Retractable Aerial Ladders on the trailers and the CFD had also purchased 5 International Harvest Cargostar Tractors for the "new" Aerial Ladder trailers and they were put in service in 1976. Chicago ran them in frontline service until between 1988 and 1989 when most of them of them were taken out of frontline service and it was one of those TDA's that was used as "Truck" 46 in the beginning of the movie Back Draft. In Chicago the Highest number Truck company is Tower Ladder 63 at O"Hare Airport. Chicago's Truck's 46 and 43 were both taken out of service on November 16th 1971 so Chicago is currently running with 61 Truck companies of which 10 of them are Tower Ladders and the remainder are rearmounted Aerial Ladders. Of the 51 rear mounted Aerial Ladders 49 of them range in Height from 100 to 103 feet and Truck 8 recently received a 2019 model 137 foot E/One Aerial Ladder with a Prepiped Waterway and so it is Officially called Aerial Tower 8. Truck 1 has a 2006 model Pierce Heavy Duty Aerial Ladder with a Prepiped  Waterway   and it is officially designated as Aerial Tower 1. None of our other front line straight Truck companies are equipped with Prepiped Waterways however we have a 1988 model E/One 135 foot rear mounted Aerial Ladder that acts as a spare rig for the other two Aerial Tower companies and it used to be assigned as Aerial Tower 1 before it was replaced in 2006.

As to why Chicago doesn't use TDA's the bottom line is probably the cost involved in purchasing the apparatus which wouldn't match the other Truck companies and having to train and qualify some members to be Tillered Ladder drivers on those rigs.                                                               Many fire departments went away from using TDAs years ago however there are some fire departments that use them exclusively due to some tight streets and some narrow turns where they can be more easily be maneuvered. New York City got rid of most of their TDA's  except for 13 Ladder companies that are located in some areas were they have very narrow streets and they need to have them there. Boston took all of theirs out of service and Houston and San Antonio no longer uses them however Dallas runs with 7 of them. San Francisco runs with them completely because of the hills and some narrow streets where they  are more maneuverable.

A case can be made for them in a few congested areas of Chicago which tend to be near the Lakefront due to some narrow streets however there are no plans for any at the moment.

I know that Los Angeles uses them exclusively  as they needed them in the narrow streets and some of the curves in the Santa Monica Mountains however I have also seen some pretty wide streets in Los Angeles where they could probably manage without them also.

 

4 hours ago, California Red said:

I'm not in that neck of town (pretty sure that's by UCSD. I'm quite a bit south, near Stn. 5). As for an ambulance, yes, at least according to the wiki. We actually would call it "Medic 35". So, their roster is: E35, M35, T35, BR35, B5, U85.

California Red I am familiar with what the Wikipedia article says however on the San Diego Fire Department website it doesn't have a Med 35 listed , which one is correct?

This a video that was taken during this past July of Chicago's first 4 new E/One 100 foot Aerial Ladders out of a current order of 13 which are still being delivered and is part of a 5 year contract with E/One for Engine, Trucks and Tower Ladders. Unfortunately one of the 100 foot Aerial Ladders was rear ended in front of quarters and there was body damage so repairs will have to be made. Chicago also received a new 137 foot E/One Aerial Ladder over the winter which also was recently damaged  while attempting to go under a narrow railroad viaduct in  it's area.

This great video was done by Steve Redick a noted fire apparatus photographer who is part of an illustrious fire fighting family long associated with the Chicago fire department, the Skokie Fire Department and the Old Chicago Fire Insurance Patrol that was disbanded in 1959.

On 10/4/2020 at 9:58 AM, California Red said:

 

 Thanks for the information California Red. I myself I am an avid follower of the the San Diego  fire department and I know that they have finally been expanding and adding  more stations which happen to be long overdue. When I was last there the fire apparatus was mainly white over red and believe it or not San Diego still owned 4 Tower Ladders of which 2 were fully manned Truck companies and the other 2 were "Jump companies" In case you don't know a Jump company is a fire company that shares it crew with another fire company located in the same station and when it is requested or needed the crew (usually from the Engine) "Jumps" on board the Truck or special unit and then they become the crew of the other company. When I was last in San DIego Trucks 28 and Trucks 10 were assigned Tower Ladders and according to what I had read there was a Tower Ladder at Station 41 which was a Jump Unit and there was also a Tower Ladder at Station 43 which was also supposed to be a Jump company and there was also a Seagrave rearmounted Aerial Ladder Truck at Station 5 which was also supposed to be a Jump company. There was no Truck 11 at that time either however Truck 14 was assigned a Snorkel as it's apparatus.

I  have been trying to keep up to date with what is happening in San Diego so can you tell me if there is an Ambulance 35 at Station 35 yet ? I have seen somewhere where it says that there is an Ambulance 35 but I have seen other things that don't say that. When I was last there Rural Metro had  just taken over the EMS service and there were somewhere around 27 or 28 Ambulances assigned to some fire stations while there was another 6 to 9 Ambulances that ran out of repair shops at Station 28 and they went on duty during the day and early evening and they would fan out across the city and be used to fill in where they were needed. They were also known as Flex units which meant that they were flexibly deployed during the busier hours. They are also known in some places as "dynamic deployment units"  or sometime called "power shift units". If I am correct only ALS ambulance were located at some of the fire stations while the BLS (basic life support ) Ambulances were either  stationed at Hospitals or out on the street somewhere.  Thanks.