LAcoFD Copters

[41engine41 3]

Currently as far as I know LACoFD operates 5 firehawks and a Bell 412, 2  Bell 412 EPs and 2 Bell 412 HPs.

Firstly what is the difference in the 412, the Ep and HP, in performance payload and missions?

Which mission are  preferred by the crews  for which airframe and why not a full firehawk or bell fleet? Do the crews prefer the Bells for SAR due to improved high altitude performance which is what I know Bell helis excel at, or do crews prefer firehawks for all missions? What determines what airframe is the ready bird? It seems the Malibu bird is generally more often than not a Bell 412.

 

[bruinmedic 1]

According to this 2016 analysis LACoFD currently operates 3 Firehawks, 3 EPs and 2 HPs(pg 13 of the PDF). I believe the two S70i Firehawks are still being fitted out in Colorado. The non EP/HP 412 has been written off. Referring again to the analysis, all the 412s have a 360gal tank and the 412 was the preferred East County Air Squad(pg 89). There appears to be no operational difference between the EP and HP, although a pilot or mechanic could explain otherwise. Perhaps less fuel could be carried to mitigate any performance limitations? Eastern Air Operations may have changed after Pomona Valley Hospital became a Level II Adult Trauma center. Those patients no longer have to be flown to County USC. I cannot speak as to which are preferred by the crews. Maintenance determines aircraft availability. There are scheduled and unscheduled maintenance items. Scheduled items would be similar to changing the oil in your car, in the case of aircraft it is determined by flight hours. Unscheduled maintenance is similar to when the check engine light suddenly appears. Finding out what the issue is and obtaining replacement parts(if they are not on the shelf) can be time consuming.

[41engine41 3]

thanks for the info. While researching the Air Squad info also read CALFIRE and San Bernadino and other agencies are replacing all thier Vietnam era Hueys with S70 Firehawks. Ventura County also just purchased 2 firehawks but not sure whetherr or not they are planning on replacing all the Hueys as they have quite a fleet of them and love them. I also read that although the Bells have less water load capacity than a firehawk and a less payload for rescues, the S70 Firehawks have far higher maintenance needs, are more expensive to operate and the flight hours to scheduled maintenance ratio is lower than the Bells, basically the Bells are cheaper and easier to maintain and stay in the air longer.

Edited November 19, 2019 by 41engine41

[e5911 23]

Part of this has to do with Excess Blackhawks coming onto the market from the Army

The last Hueys left the Army for civilian life about 2 years ago, the Army kept them in the inventory as long as there were parts in the bin, once parts we not available at the Army they would not spend money to service them, and they were excessed out. There were a handful of them for test centers because the Blackhaws had not been adopted for that use yet. the first gen Blackhaws are going to Excess Property now.

My understanding is all the Blackhawks for Ventura, Santa Barbra, and San Diego Counties were all Excess property Army birds.

LACoFD bought new s70s

The Excess army birds likely had high hours and were just about gutted and rebuilt, but that would still be cheaper than what LA County is doing.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blackhawks still are not type certified for civilian use til they are converted to Firehawks

The USMC is still heavily invested in the Huey, with UH-1Z as the current model.

 

 

[41engine41 3]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:03 PM, e5911 said:

Part of this has to do with Excess Blackhawks coming onto the market from the Army

The last Hueys left the Army for civilian life about 2 years ago, the Army kept them in the inventory as long as there were parts in the bin, once parts we not available at the Army they would not spend money to service them, and they were excessed out. There were a handful of them for test centers because the Blackhaws had not been adopted for that use yet. the first gen Blackhaws are going to Excess Property now.

My understanding is all the Blackhawks for Ventura, Santa Barbra, and San Diego Counties were all Excess property Army birds.

LACoFD bought new s70s

The Excess army birds likely had high hours and were just about gutted and rebuilt, but that would still be cheaper than what LA County is doing.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blackhawks still are not type certified for civilian use til they are converted to Firehawks

The USMC is still heavily invested in the Huey, with UH-1Z as the current model.

 

 

The Canadian Forces also still rely heavily on the Bell, the call them Griffons. They use them for troop insertion and extraction, CAS, SAR and utility. A few squadrons operate them with door guns attached. Also the Canadian Special Forces flight use blue painted Griffons, basically Bell 412s.

[41engine41 3]

Why does LACoFD use the Bells for the east area copter duty? Shame they dont get more of a look in with the San Gabriel Mountains and ANF area. Seems LA Sheriff Air Rescue 5 has the ANF and mountains for SAR ops. Often hear them working with FS 82s and 79s units up in the mountains along with USFS fire units on SAR missions and traffic collisions

[bruinmedic 1]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:03 AM, e5911 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blackhawks still are not type certified for civilian use til they are converted to Firehawks

Several companies have either recently completed or are in the final stages of certifying Blackhawks for civilian use.
Coulson-Unical has N160CD at Fullerton Airport. It does not have the raised landing gear as the Firehawks and appears to have an internal water tank.

To make matters confusing:

1. United Rotorcraft modifies Blackhawks into Firehawks ®. This modification raises the landing gear and installs a belly tank.
2. Firehawk Helicopters also modifies Blackhawks for firefighting. This modification does not have raised landing gear and has an internal water tank.

Edited November 25, 2019 by bruinmedic

[bruinmedic 1]

13 hours ago, 41engine41 said:

Why does LACoFD use the Bells for the east area copter duty? Shame they dont get more of a look in with the San Gabriel Mountains and ANF area. Seems LA Sheriff Air Rescue 5 has the ANF and mountains for SAR ops. Often hear them working with FS 82s and 79s units up in the mountains along with USFS fire units on SAR missions and traffic collisions

I do not know why LACoFD has a preference for Bells in east county. Rescue 5 is closest resource to those areas when they are on alert at Barley Flats. If they are doing training elsewhere... say Catalina, you'll get the closest LACoFD resource.

[bruinmedic 1]

N160CD of Coulson-Unical can be seen in action on this Vertical Magazine Instagram post.