firepost

On 10/4/2020 at 2:41 PM, Polecat said:

For LA City FD, in the late 80's, early 90's at Fire Station 20, we had an older ambulance (see photo of similar vehicle) that had a 100' Rescue Air Cushion (RAC). This was the first air cushion in the City of Los Angeles. We responded within the boundaries of Los Angeles as well as surrounding communities i.e.. Glendale, Pasadena, LA County Area.

As the years progressed, the department purchased more 100' & 75' bags that we placed on the truck companies. The RAC 20 vehicle was eventually phased out and the air cushion transferred to the truck.

We responded as Task Force 20, Rescue Air Cushion 20.

Polecat so in other words the Air Cushions are actually carried on the Trucks which apparently means that the Trucks in LA have plenty of space for additional equipment on board.. Thanks.

On 9/27/2020 at 7:39 PM, EMT_FS46 said:

Yes unfortunately the heavy duty task force no longer exist although you can consider station 9 a heavy duty task force. Station 9 is unique being the district is the smallest in the city. However being on Skid Row. They have the largest homeless population in the city as well as in the country. Most of which have drug addiction and mental Heath problems. I was there in the late 90’s and early 2000’s before and after the upgrade. We would run 30 plus calls in a 24 hour shit with a traditional task force ( light force 9, engine 9, rescue 9 and rescue 809 ). In 2000 or 2001 somewhere around there. Engine 209 was fully staffed with 4 members, truck 9 with 5 and split into separate companies. Rescue 809 was upgraded to a paramedic rescue ( Rescue 209 ). Since those days station 9 has been upgraded again due to call volume. 9’s now runs Engine 9, Engine 209, Truck 9, Rescue 9, Rescue 209, Rescue 809, Rescue 900, and FR 9 ( fast response ). The fast response unit is ALS but doesn’t run the whole 24 hour shift. I’m not sure if Rescue 900 runs the whole 24 hours either. Welp there you have it. A little insight on station 9 lol. Also at one time in the 60’s or 70’s station 9 had a heavy utility truck ( heavy rescue ) and a salvage unit ( squad ).

 FS 46 I have never heard of Station 9 having a  Heavy Utility unit there. I know that many years ago Station 14 had one around the late 1940s and then they had been moved Old Station 3 on Hill street years later, They also were at Station 6 in the mid 1960s and didn't they have at least 2 in service for a while with one at Station 88 and the other One at Station 6 which was moved to Station 27?                                                                         

Station 9 did have Squad 9 before they were assigned as the first of the Heavy Duty Task Forces however Squad 9 wasn't a Salvage Unit but it was LA's first  Manpower Squad which was originally at Station 23 and then when they opened Station 9 it was relocated to Station 9. Squad 9's apparatus was similar in appearance to the Salvage companies however they originally responded in the Central City for their manpower and they were also one of the first companies to have SCBA airmasks before they assigned them to the Engines and Trucks years ago. That Squad initially was put in service the late 1940s when they were at old Station 23.

I know that LA City ran with many Salvage units however I had heard that only a few of them that were assigned in the downtown and Hollywood Areas had a full compliment of manpower which was at least 4 or 5 men while most of the others only ran with 2 or 3 people. I also know that they had changed the designations of the Salvage Units to "Squad" Units in early to mid 1960s. Would know why they changed that designation? I think that it maybe because they might have  put inhalators (resusicitators) on them and had them respond on some EMS runs before they started adding more Ambulances to the fleet.

I know that the Heavy Utility Wrecker eventually was redesignated as a Heavy Rescue not that long ago when they were relocated to Station 56 but I was wondering if the LA City fire department ever had any real Heavy  Rescue Squads years ago like perhaps the 20s or the 30s?

I know that currently the Light Forces actually do most of the Heavy Rescue work as well the Truck work in LA city.

I know that it wasn't until the late 60s that the LAFD took over  the City Ambulance service from the Central Receiving Hospital and that the fire department was only running the Ambulances in the Valley before that. 

Perhaps you can tell me about that Older Cadillac ambulance at the Museum at Station 27. Was that Ambulance used only for the fire fighters or did it do EMS work for the public?  I believe it's a 1956 Cadillac. Thanks.

15 hours ago, Monrovia1 said:

Has Chicago FD ever used tillers? I saw one in the opening scenes of Backdraft.

On 9/28/2020 at 1:10 AM, mikesaccount said:

why doesn't Chicago fire use TDA aerial ladders?

The Chicago Fire Department had used Tillered Aerial Ladders for years just like many other big city fire departments did. In 1965 of Chicago's then 62 Truck companies 58 of them were using TDA's and the other 4 were Mack/Magirus rear mounted Aerial Ladders whose Ladders were manufactured in Germany by the Magirus  company. They were purchased in 1959 and 2 were 100 feet in height while the other 2 were 144 feet in Height and amongst the Tallest Aerial Ladders in the United States at the time. 

Most of Chicago's TDA's had 85 foot Wooden Aerials on them and only 5 of them had Metal Telescopic Aerials and of those 5 two of them were retrofitted on two older trailers that had wooden ladders on them when delivered. Chicago was still purchasing Wooden Tillered Aerial Ladders in the 1950s and from 1954 through 1956 the CFD  purchased 25 Wooden TIllered Aerials. Of the 5 metal TDA"s 3 of them were purchased in 1942 and of the 2 retrofits one was done in 1959 and the other was done in 1963.

Chicago began a large scale fire apparatus replacement program beginning in 1966 and by 1976 most all of Chicago's TDA's had been replaced by new Non Tillered Aerials with the vast majority being rear mounted ladders. Chicago's famous Fire Commissioner Robert J Quinn who had been the Fire Commissioner from 1957 until 1978 decided to give the idea of Tillered Aerials a last hurrah and in 1975 he sent 5 1954 model TDA trailers to the Seagrave company in Clintonville Wisconsin where they totally rehabbed and rebuilt the trailers and they also installed brand new 100 foot Metal Retractable Aerial Ladders on the trailers and the CFD had also purchased 5 International Harvest Cargostar Tractors for the "new" Aerial Ladder trailers and they were put in service in 1976. Chicago ran them in frontline service until between 1988 and 1989 when most of them of them were taken out of frontline service and it was one of those TDA's that was used as "Truck" 46 in the beginning of the movie Back Draft. In Chicago the Highest number Truck company is Tower Ladder 63 at O"Hare Airport. Chicago's Truck's 46 and 43 were both taken out of service on November 16th 1971 so Chicago is currently running with 61 Truck companies of which 10 of them are Tower Ladders and the remainder are rearmounted Aerial Ladders. Of the 51 rear mounted Aerial Ladders 49 of them range in Height from 100 to 103 feet and Truck 8 recently received a 2019 model 137 foot E/One Aerial Ladder with a Prepiped Waterway and so it is Officially called Aerial Tower 8. Truck 1 has a 2006 model Pierce Heavy Duty Aerial Ladder with a Prepiped  Waterway   and it is officially designated as Aerial Tower 1. None of our other front line straight Truck companies are equipped with Prepiped Waterways however we have a 1988 model E/One 135 foot rear mounted Aerial Ladder that acts as a spare rig for the other two Aerial Tower companies and it used to be assigned as Aerial Tower 1 before it was replaced in 2006.

As to why Chicago doesn't use TDA's the bottom line is probably the cost involved in purchasing the apparatus which wouldn't match the other Truck companies and having to train and qualify some members to be Tillered Ladder drivers on those rigs.                                                               Many fire departments went away from using TDAs years ago however there are some fire departments that use them exclusively due to some tight streets and some narrow turns where they can be more easily be maneuvered. New York City got rid of most of their TDA's  except for 13 Ladder companies that are located in some areas were they have very narrow streets and they need to have them there. Boston took all of theirs out of service and Houston and San Antonio no longer uses them however Dallas runs with 7 of them. San Francisco runs with them completely because of the hills and some narrow streets where they  are more maneuverable.

A case can be made for them in a few congested areas of Chicago which tend to be near the Lakefront due to some narrow streets however there are no plans for any at the moment.

I know that Los Angeles uses them exclusively  as they needed them in the narrow streets and some of the curves in the Santa Monica Mountains however I have also seen some pretty wide streets in Los Angeles where they could probably manage without them also.

On 9/28/2020 at 1:10 AM, mikesaccount said:

why doesn't Chicago fire use TDA aerial ladders?

18 hours ago, EMT_FS46 said:

All the truck companies ( lightforce) carry jump bags which we call rescue air cushions. ( LA City Fire )

Thanks for the reply EMT_FS46. I had read  a few years ago that some of the LAFD Trucks carried some extra  large air cushions as well. The  Trucks in LA must  have  alot of cabinet space to carry those bags. It's interesting that Truck 9 is not part of Light Force since Engine 209 became a fully manned Engine company. You might know that at one time Station 9 actully had run with 3 Triples as you call them as it was one of  4 Heavy Duty Task Force stations where there was a Wagon , a Pump and a 2 hundred series Engine which ran as a fully manned company. I believe that the 200 series Engine might have been equipped with a Tele Squirt device on the apparatus. I think that the Pump was actually the Light Force Engine that ran attached to Truck 9. Those Heavy Duty Task Forces were eliminated in 1978 when the Jarvis amendment was passed in the California State Legislature which cut funding for the California fire departments and other agencies. 

I was wondering what was the matter with the Helmets that the LAFD is already using? In other words what was the impetus for changing the Helmet style? Were there any complaints about them? Were there any issues with them? You have been using them so long already that the LA style helmets have become a LAFD tradition. I was wondering what year did the LAFD go the famous LA style helmets which you apparently are changing from?

On 8/27/2020 at 11:56 AM, California Red said:

I have been looking for messageboards similar to this, but that deal with (or at least include) the Chicago Fire Department. I feel like that chicagoareafire.com side should have a forum area, but it seems not to. I just kind of got curious when seeing a picture of an older vehicle operating as 5-6-2, a "jump bag" unit. This was a really cool former ambulance that was repurposed as a "jump bag" unit. 

 

ETA: Right here, actually. http://www.cfdshopnumbers.com/c-series/804

 

So, a jump bag, as I know (?) now, is an EMS tool bag, so to speak (maybe similar to a FA kit, but bigger). So, I'm not sure what a jump bag unit would do. Resupply?

Maybe this could have been its own thread, but it seemed related to this one.

California Red I agree that it would be nice if Chicago had a message board however when ever there is a new posting on the Chicago Area fire departments website is there is an open "Comments" section that you are allowed to post observations and opinions on and the comment section does end up being a message board  as long as the message is related more or less to the article or the photo that was posted. The FDNY does have an excellent "Forum Board" where not only can you post questions but  the there are many forums on that board that allows to you categorize the  your question or statement as to what it is related to on the FDNY. 

I don't really know if you are into the New York City Fire Department or not but if you are here's the link https://www.nycfire.net/forums/.

Getting back to Chicago's Jump Bag Units, as someone else mentioned here  the Jump Bags that they are talking about are these large inflatable "Cushion" type bags for Jumpers or people threatening to Jump. They are  what have replaced the the old time lifenets that Truck companies used carry as standard equipment. 

Chicago unit 562 was unfortunately taken out of service  3 years ago on September 5th 2017. I really don't understand why it was taken out of service because it was an unmanned unit and when it would be needed the Truck or Engine company that it was quartered with would drive the Van to the scene if requested. Chicago  was running with 3 Jump Bag Units and they were designated 561,562 and 563. 561 was located more or less in the Center of City at Engine 4 and Tower Ladder 10's house on the near north side,562 was located on the northside at Engine 124 and Truck 38's quarters and 563 was located on the southside at Engine 47 and Truck 30's quarters. As far as I know units 561 and 563 are still in service but the North Side Jump bag unit 562 is not in service. When the jump bag units were initially put in service around the late 80s they were colocated with Chicago's Squad companies of which there were  and still are 4 of them in service. Three of them are in the City Proper  and a 4th one is located at O"Hare International Airport which is on City Property but is actually beyond the City Limits. Since the around 2000 the Air Bag Units were relocated else where.

Since you are from Los Angeles, I presume, I have a question for you. I know that several of  your Truck companies (Light Forces) have been equipped with Jump Bags and I was wondering if the Jump Bags are actually  carried on the Ladder Trucks or is there seperate vehicle or Van that goes with the Light Force when the Jump Bags are needed.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

On the subject of Lifting Airbags I know that the Ladder units in Los Angeles carry alot of equipment on them. Chicago's Trucks do  carry Hurst tools on them however the Truck companies here don't carry any Airbags for lifting and only our Squads carry the Lifting bags. I think that it would be a good idea if some of Chicago's Truck companies would carry Lifting bags like they do in Los Angeles so that we wouldn't always have to wait for a Squad company to show up in order to use the bags.

On 9/10/2020 at 8:14 PM, EMT_FS46 said:

What’s with the switch to red and blue emergency lights 

 I believe that someone  in the department of Fleet Management  wasn't making a big

 deal about the green lights missing and since  most of the light bars tend more commonly be built with blue and red lighting for the Police and other Fire Departments that don't use green lights.

they just let it happen. If you notice on some of the youtube videos from Chicago there still is a smaller green flashing light built next to the front grill or fender area of the new Squads. Even the video of Battalion 1 leaving it's quarter's has a smaller green light below the grill..

You may or may not know that a few years ago(in 2016) the CFD had gotten several solid red Chiefs "buggies" (as we call them in Chicago) and  the following order  ( in 2018)we went back to black over red. Well now disappointing as it may be to us traditionalists the latest group of  buggies are once again solid red however the new light bars do have a green light on them now.

Here is a photo of Chicago;s latest buggies that were recently put in service.

We just also received  several solid black suvs for the Commissioner and some of the High Ranking "Brass".

On 9/13/2020 at 8:59 PM, California Red said:

Yes, the green and red is a maritime tradition and is very common in Chicagoland, and occurs elsewhere as well (SFFD, for instance, to tell between a ladder and an engine). And blue is pretty common all over Illinois (and many other states). Has been for decades. Becoming more so.

The Chicago Fire Department started the famous Red and Green Light Tradition roughly between 1927 and 1931 when Albert Goodrich was the Fire Commissioner. His family had owned a Steamship company and to honor the "maritime tradition" he not only applied Green and Red Lights to the fire apparatus but also each fire station had a small green light on one side of the bay door or doors to the station and a small red light on the other side. They symbolize the Port and Starboard sides of a ship.

I haven't noticed it mentioned here so I will. The LAFD put a 4th Fast Response unit in service at Station 82. The first one was put in service at  Station 91 and the next one is at Station 9 however I understand that it  originally started off at Station 20 and the third one  I understand  is at Station 64. They are really a small brush patrol unit  and are also equipped as a an ALS paramedic unit and they actually patrol their districts most of the time and act as a first responder unit. 

I know that the one in Station 91's district was put their because Station 91  has a very large first in district and it helps relieve the workload and cuts down on the Ems responses for Engine 91 and Station 9 is continuously busy due to the homeless epidemic in the district. I was wondering if  Fast Response 64 and 82 only patrol  in their station's first in districts or if for example Fast Response 64 also patrols in Station 65's district and I was wondering if Fast Response 82 is limited to Station 82's district or whether they also patrol Station 27's district as well?

4 hours ago, buckeyefyrfoto said:

The 180s belong to Goodyear, southwest of Phoenix.

Thanks buckeye.

On 8/11/2020 at 1:06 AM, GilbertFIRE said:

nope

,   Also Station 188 @ Citrus & Harrison got approved for 2021 Budget & should be operational by Mid 2022

 

Is Station 188 supposed to be with the Phoenix fire department? If so what town will it be  in as a 3 digit number for Phoenix usually means that the station is not in Phoenix proper?

2 hours ago, pump305 said:

My understanding is if the airport buys or helps with the payment of such apparatus. Lime Yellow is the color to be at an International airport. If the dept buys their own apparatus then red or any color they choose. Example: Ontario International is now operated by Ontario FD. Red is the color on the ARFF trucks as they own the apparatus.

Thanks for the information.

21 hours ago, Zach Nia said:

BC706 is a reserve battalion that is currently running in place of Battalion 18. Battalion 18 was involved in an accident a couple months ago.

Thanks for the reply but are they now calling the Chief Battalion 706 as in most places when an accident occurs they just put a "spare buggy" in service and they just  resume identifying the  Battalion Chief by it's regular number.

During the last week I have noticed a Battalion 706 that was listed on the apparatus run down of 2 Major Emergency  fires in Los Angeles. The first one which I had noticed was at 9041 W Pico on 7/24/2020 and more recently at 2994 W Pico at the fire on 7/27/2020.

Is that a new company or a new designation or is it a "Special Operations Battalion Chief"? What is it's function and where is it stationed at?

Speaking of Chiefs. I know that a few years ago the Traditional Fire Divisions were replaced  with 4 Area Commands.

Here is my question. I have only been noticing Command 22 from the Central Command and Command 42 from the Valley Command at listed at most Major Emergencies but I rarely if ever notice the Commanders from the West and the South Commands. Is it that only the Central and Valley Commands are due on the Major Emergencies. I appears that Command 22  also responds to Fires in the West and South Commands.

What are the radio signatures for the West and South Commands? I know that the Central Command is 22 and the Valley Command is 42. 

1 hour ago, Rescue51 said:

So in the case of LAFD's Engine 51, for KLAX, my understanding is the reason these rigs are painted lime, is that because they provide service to an airport, the FAA kicks in some funding for the rig (I do not know how much), but to do so, the rig must be painted lime.  Not my favorite color, but with the blue strips, it actually looks good!  I prefer yellow over lime if it is not red.  Interesting all the California OES rigs are also lime (or most of them). 

Yes you are right that if it is an "Airport company"they are required to be painted Lime or Yellow as it is a "Federal Regulation". One thing that they are lucky about however is the LA city station 95 seems to "technically speaking" be on Airport property yet the vehicles at that Station aren't required to be painted Lime or Yellow so everyone located there is Red and White.

14 minutes ago, h_par202 said:

They are! I did hear about the warranty work.. hopefully it's nothing serious

Yes because the sooner they get the new rigs  delivered and on the street the better. Speaking of new rigs. I know that over the last 3 years the LA City fire department finally started putting some Engine companies back in service that were taken out of service during the recession and about a year ago a Ladder or Truck company (Light Force 38) was put back  in service however it would be good if they started formulating plans to put several other Light Forces back in service as before the recession there were 49 Trucks in service and now there are 43. I don't understand why they took Light Force 28 out of service and replaced it with an Engine especially if you consider that was in one of the newest fire stations at the time and they really weren't far from Engine 8. You would figure with 2 stations near each other they would let Station 28 keep the Light Force while Station 8 would keep the Engine as a Light Force can operate as both an Engine or as a Truck company. I also know that LA CIty lost 2 Battalion Chiefs as well as several EMS field supervisors too.

Those are really nice shots of the new apparatus. I  hope that they perform as good as they look as according to a previous post  there has been another delaying in getting some of the new rigs delivered due to "Warranty Work".

I am aware that San Diego has been contracting  EMS ambulance service with a private contractor since at least the 1990's. The contractor had been Rural Metro until AMR had acquired Rural Metro to my understanding. I recall that when Rural Metro had run the Ambulances there about 29 of the Ambulances that were Stationed at various fire stations and there were another 6 to 10 Ambulances that ran during the busier hours from the afternoon through the  late evening and were what is known a "dynamic deployment" which  means that those ambulances were basically located at locations out on the streets and those Ambulances were shifted around depending on where most of the call volume was so they would be moved to where there were gaps in coverage at the time day.

My  question is are the most of the full time ambulances still located at designated fire stations and are there still part time ambulances that are only in service during the busier hours and are they  located at street locations or are they also located at the fire stations?

I know that in the late 1990s  when Rural Metro had the contract the "power shift" or the busy hour ambulancs had been stationed at the San Diego Fire repair shops when they weren't on duty and they  would deploy from the Shops on Kearney Villa road and would fan out around the city when they would go into service in the midday time.

Does San Diego still run with designated BLS ambulances and do they run from firestations or are they located at hospitals or at street locations also?

Do you have the amount of and the current locations of  San Diegos Ambulance Units. 

Does Station 35 currently run with an Ambulance in its district and does Station 29 still run with 2 Ambulances? I recall that in the late 1990s an Ambulance had run out of LIndbergh FIeld out of the ARFF house and that it was designated as Medic 63. Is it still located and running out of Lindbergh Field?

Thanks.

On 7/15/2020 at 7:35 AM, x635 said:

I really hope LAFD returns to Seagrave. 

Perhaps the LAFD would eventually order Seagrave Engines again however believe it or not its been thirty years since the Lafd last ordered a Seagrave Aerial Ladder. It's only been 14 years since the LAFD last received new Seagrave Engines. It seems as if Seagrave had priced themselves out of the Aerial Ladder Market in Los Angeles years ago.

On 7/14/2020 at 6:36 PM, Generic said:

Paramedics are initially trained to provide life saving assessments and treatments to the sick and injured. What happens in the field is that there is so much non-life threatening calls that paramedics start to learn through experience and sometimes extra training classes about some of the various diseases etc. They assess the patient and determine if there is anything critical that needs to be dealt with and start treatment. If there is not a critical or serious condition, then you determine what the best course of action. Paramedics don't have in depth training on mental health and alcohol related problems. This is a long term problem with probably a long term solution.

The LAFD has decided to allow certain paramedics to have specialized training to deal with these types of situations. They started this with a pilot program to see if it helps the patient and takes the burden off the hospital and the department. They don't want to poor millions of dollars into a program that they find out later that it does not work. If they find that it works, they may expand it to the rest of the city. 

So these specially trained paramedics seem like they would be functioning similar  to the crew on the Advanced Provider Units as they also attempt to divert patients from always going to an ER and finding a altemate or a more appropriate course of treatment.

Do you know what the dispatch protocol is for the Alternate Destination Unit. Do they first dispatch an Ambulance or an Assessment company and once they are on the scene they call for the Alternate Destination Unit or the Advanced Provider Unit if the paramedics deem it appropriate?

12 hours ago, Generic said:

The Alternate Destination Response Unit (ADRU) is a new pilot program started by LAFD on June 10th, 2019. Staffed by two firefighter-paramedics, AD15 is able to send stable mental patients to a Mental Health Urgent Care Center and ETOH/intoxicated patients to a sobering center both via BLS ambulance

 Thanks for  sending the information, however why would it take the paramedics on the Alternate Destination unit to be able to send a patient to an Mental Health Urgent Care center of a Sobering Center? Shouldn't any Lafd paramedic be able to do that.I would figure that Paramedics that are assigned to any of the Ambulances or Assessment companies should have the training and authorization fo send patients to an Alternate Destination. To only have one such unit assigned to one station who can do that seems like a poor use of resources. There are patients  all over the city that I am sure can be diverted so why keep the only unit with that kind Authority just located at Station 15? It just doesn't seem to make sense.

I noticed that LA City Station 15 has both an Advanced Provider Unit and an Alternate Destination Unit. What exactly is an Alternate Destination Unit? I saw a 2 second video of the Alternative Destination Unit and it appeared to be more of an SUV van as opposed to an Ambulance Unless that was just a spare rig, 

I know that the intention of of Advanced Provider Unit is to try and handle some of the "Frequent Flyer's" by treating them on the scene or referring them to more appropriate local resources then to always take them to the ERs which may be unneccessary.

On 7/5/2020 at 3:28 PM, h_par202 said:

Pretty sure SQ95 did not have a dedicated crew. 

Thanks h_par202. I had thought so.

So are these ALS Squads intended to replace the Clark County Fire Department ambulances or are they just there to supplement the Ambulances?

Thanks

That's bad news. It sounds like what happened a few years ago during the recession.

 And things were finally starting to look better the last few years with some fire companies that were cut being restored.