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That's great news to hear as it looks like that they won't be able to expand their American La France fleet any longer, I suppose that it means that Phoenix fire department is happy with their current Pierce Quantums?

Thanks fireguy. Since you had previously mentioned that most Light Forces and Engines are Assessment companies don't you really mean that most stations now have an assessment company assigned to them as if I'm correct isn't is still true that if a station has more then one suppression company assigned to it only one of them will be an Assessment (ALS) company? For example in houses that are still lucky enough to house both an Engine company and a LIght Force (a Full Task Force) since they are considered to be as 2 companies would either the Engine be an Assessment company or the Light Force would be an Assessment company but both of them of them wouldn't as it would either be one or the other, correct? I would also like to confirm with you what the current dispatches are for both your Category A and your Category B responses are as you seem to be up to date. I know that a few years ago a Category A was to receive no less then 4 suppression companies including one light force and 3 Engine companies plus a both an ALS and a BLS ambulance and a Battalion Chief while a Category B was to have no less then 6 suppression companies assigned with no less then 2 Light Forces and 4 Engine companies plus the 2 Ambulances and one or two Battalion Chiefs. So what I am really trying to clarify are those company dispatch amounts still correct or has it been reduced as I am under the impression that it might have been reduced by one Engine on both the Category A and the Catergory B dispatches. In the 1980's the Category A dispatches were to be no less the 3 suppression companies while the Category B dispatches were to be no less then 5 companies because only 3 as opposed to 4 full Engine companies were required. Those numbers were subsequently increased to a minimum of 4 suppression companies on a Category A and 6 suppression companies on a Category B however I don't if those numbers are still correct or not. I know that Los Angeles City does things differently then most other cities but are High Rise Fires still dispatched as Category B (commercial or multi family residential building alarms) or have they now provided a separate dispatch category for High Rise fires. Over the last 5 to 10 years many cities have increased the amount of the companies that are dispatched to High Rise Fires as opposed to commercial or multiple dwelling fires. I haven't heard about Los Angeles CIty doing that yet however. Thanks again.

Fire Guy when you refer to a third party caller reporting a person down can you give an example. I would imagine that the third party would be someone who in not a witness to the incident correct.? For example if I were to see someone down on the street then I would be a first party caller, correct? If I were to knock on my neighbors door and ask them to call 911 for a person down on the street would the neighbor or person that is asked to make the call would they then be a second party caller or would they be a third party caller? Here's another example. If a Taxi Driver were to see someone collapse on the street (which could be classified as a witnessed event and he would get on his radio and ask his dispatcher to call 911 for a witnessed Cardiac arrest or witnessed collapse would it still be considered as as third party call or would that really be a second party call? This is just for a clarification ,thank you.

JoeyK48 what you are saying does make some sense and in fact in 2006 former Fire Chief Bamattre did propose and release a multiyear plan which would have added several more fire companies and Battalions which would have been over and above what the Los Angeles City fire department had in 2008/2009 before the cut backs of the last several years. For example there would have also been an Engine 22,30,31,54 and 78 as well as a Light Force 30. There would have been a second Heavy Rescue company and at the end of 5 years all of the 6 Urban Search and Rescue trucks would have each had their own dedicated manpower assigned to them. All 4 of the Haz Mat Squads would have also been manned and 5 additional Battalions would have been added so there would have been 21 instead of just 16 Battalions after 5 years. There also would have been more ambulances and assessment companies which were out lined in a second EMS expansion plan. Of course with a few years after Chief Bamattre left the fire department was forced to take companies out of service as opposed to adding them like Chief Bamattre proposed.

They tried that out some time ago by borrowing a Tillered Quint from the Los Angeles County fire department and using it on LA City Light Force 58 and it didn't work out. They also borrowed a rear mounted E-One Aerial Ladder quint from Anaheim with the same results. This was in the 1990's when the LA County fire department was getting it's first tillered quints. In reality the Light Forces are two piece quints however a one piece Quint doesn't give them enough space for all of the equipment that they carry on board. They need to run the 200 or 300 series Engine with the Truck as they are part of the same fire company and if they should get a fire when they are out on the street they could respond together like they are supposed to. They don't send out Light Forces to every EMS call as it depends on where the nearest company is and who is available. Some times a single Engine company will be dispatched or 2 ambulances depending on the their location and the nature of the emergency. The 2 piece Light Force concept works well when there is a greater alarm or major emergency taking place as that way the Light Force can act as an Engine or a Truck company if they are running short of fire companies during busy times.

According to the article the LAFD is supposed to be working on a new strategic plan and there is a supposed management study that is taking place. Of course they are looking for a new fire chief.

I was wondering who handles the RIT (rapid intervention team) duties at working structure fires in the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles County FIre Department? For example if you have a working fire is an extra company dispatched for RIT duties or does the LA County Fire department just assign one of the companies that have already been dispatched on the initial alarm as the Rapid Intervention team. I know that LA County had been sending 4 Engines , 1 Truck, 1 Paramedic Squad and 1 Emergency Support Team and 1 Battalion Chief to house fires and 5 Engines,2 Truck and 2 Battalion Chiefs to Multiple residency ,commercial ,institutional , HIgh RIse and bridge fires in addition to the Paramedic Squad and Emergency Support Team. Is that still the case or have things been revised over the last few years? I know that as of a few years ago there were only 4 Emergency Support companies and they only had 2 men assigned to them so I was wondering if they are still in service or if they are still even being used as 4 Emergency Support companies isn't very much for a jurisdiction the size of Los Angeles County? Thanks

I saw a limited time showing of burn a little less then a year ago at a movie theater and it is heartbreaking to see what they are going through in Detroit. The men are very very dedicated but the conditions are worse then in your average big city fire department. The city has been in bad shape for a long long time but the fire department keeps shrinking. In June of 2012 10 Engine and 4 Trucks were taken out of service and they still run with several companies that are browned out everyday. Their EMS system which has ambulances mainly based out of fire stations is continuously overworked and while over worked ambulances is really nothing new in most cities the major difference in Detroit is that an Engine or Truck is not normally sent as a first responder so the wait for help can be very long at times. Only their Heavy Rescue/Manpower Squads will run on an EMS run at times but that is something that some cities were doing 40 and 50 years ago and most places have since started using Engines and Trucks as first responders as there are much more of them then there are Rescue/Manpower Squads.

Casey you were looking at the wrong fire. I wasn't talking about firefighter Taylor who fell though the roof at a restaurant fire(on January 28 1981). I was talking about firefighter Phillips who was knocked off of an Aerial Ladder at a Lumber Yard fire (on April 25th 1979) about 2 years earlier. Both of the fires were located on Lankershim however they were over two miles apart in distance.

Yes hp1530 I too remember when Snorkel 3 on the LAFD city fire department had flipped over in 1970. The findings were that the rig's outriggers weren't fully extended. That incident had made the LAFD (tall aerial) platform shy as after the accident both of their 85 foot Snorkels (3 and 27) were taken out of service. The LA city fire department did have 4 50 foot Snorkels that were built on Engine chassis and they had remained in service as part of four out of five former "Heavy Duty' Task Forces though 1978 when they were taken out of service. A few of the 50 foot Snorkel/Pumpers had been assigned to some other companies until the mid 1980's when they were finally retired.. It was a tragedy that the accident in 1970 was fatal and a fire fighter Thomas C Collier was killed however in April of 1979 another firefighter Brian E Phillips was killed when a ladder pipe had come loose and knocked him off of the Ladder when fighting a fire at 7151 Lankershim in the "Valley". The point that I'm trying to make is that both of those accidents were tragic but just as ladder pipes weren't banned after the Ladder Pipe came loose in 1979 for the same reason tall Aerial Platforms shouldn't be banned either. Accidents sometimes happen but it doesn't mean that a piece of equipment should be banned..

I recently found out that San Jose opened a new Station 24 and closed Station 33. They also received 4 new Pierce Tillered Aerial Ladders which I believer are at Ladders 14 ,34,2 and 35. There are also about 5 new "Squads" in service that had been former Freightlliner ambulances. Does anyone know about their current assignments? I haven't been able to get any more good up to date information as to current and future fire stations and company and apparatus assignments besides the information that I just posted above, Does anyone have any current fire station location and apparatus assignment information as of now (October 2013)? There had been a good website for fire station locations in San Jose and Santa Clara county complete with a map and photo links however it is no longer up to date as far as some of the more recent company and apparatus assignments go. It is still a good site however. Here it is. http://www.yourfiredepartment.org/SJS/Fire_Stations.html I appreciate any current information thanks.

Yes I agree with this assessment of Tower Ladders or Aerial Platforms in general. I still wonder why they haven't tried more of them out in the Los Angeles area. Perhaps when Los Angeles finally gets a new fire chief he would be willing to try out some Tower Ladders for the LA city fire department. I know that Long Beach has had one for quite a while now. So far this is only wishful thinking however.

I know that the San Diego City fire department had been using a full size Snorkel at Truck 14 until a few years ago when it was replaced with a Pierce rearmounted Aerial Ladder with a prepiped waterway. I don't know if the Snorkel is still on reserve status or whether San Diego had gotten rid of it. San Diego had been using Snorkels for quite a few years and in the late 80's and early 90's they had total of 4 Tower Ladders however they are no longer in service and I am not sure if they still have any of them. It is interesting to see the Los Angeles City Fire Department had a Sutphen Tower in it's shops some 10 to 15 years ago according to this thread. Too bad that they didn't try it out or try out another make or model. While Los Angeles City may have some narrow streets in the Santa Monica mountains where maneuvering a Tower Ladder could be a problem. I really think that their reluctance to purchase a large (meaning 75 feet or higher) Aerial Platform stems from when an 85 foot Snorkel had flipped over and a fire fighter was unfortunately killed. The cause was found to be that one of the out riggers wasn't fully extended. Since then Snorkels had been equipped with safety systems that warn you if the outriggers are not fully extended and may even lock the platform lifting mechanism unless the out rigger is in place. That may not be very relevant now as most fire departments in recent years have been using Tower Ladders instead of Snorkels. Unfortunately accidents do happen in what is known as a dangerous "calling" and that doesn't really mean that large aerial platforms should be banned from use on a Fire Department. About 9 years after the "Snorkel accident" another Los Angeles City fire fighter (Brian Phillips) was killed on April 25 1979 when a ladder pipe on the Ladder he was on had come loose and knocked him off of the Ladder. Ladder pipes are not inherently safer then Snorkels or Elevating Platforms but unfortunately accidents do happen no matter the device or apparatus that you are using. The Los Angeles Fire Department and it fire fighters are amongst the best in the world, however the LAFD management seems to be "Aerial Plafform shy". The Los Angeles Fire Department Tillered Aerial Ladders work very well for their fire department however having a few Tower Ladders or Large Elevating Platforms in it's apparatus fleet could also prove useful in some circumstances and elevating platforms also have some distinct advantages (such as in removing victims on litters and also removing ambulatory victims from roofs ,porches and windows. They also allow for more tactical flexibility for fire fighters who are directing a master stream from the Platform as opposed to being perched on a ladder rung for a while.

Who responds to the east end of Mesa for Truck coverage or does the second due Engine there act as a Truck? The east end of town is where is there are the largest gaps in coverage.

War dog I can't read your post it's too light in green. Try using a darker color.

Mesabill I had made a mistake it is Station 6 and not 4 that was running with a 75 foot Aerial Ladder/Quint. I also think that you really meant that station 606 and not 616 runs with a Ladder/Quint. Am I correct?

Seth you asked the question that I have been wondering about for years. It is true that LA county did purchase two Tower Ladders some time ago and they did have at least one of them on reserve status. I had gotten in trouble several years ago for questioning LA City's refusal to try Tower Ladders so apparently they are happy using a 100 % tillered aerial fleet. I believe that they find it simpler to use a standardized fleet of Trucks and also there are some areas in the Hollywood Hills and mountain areas where maneuverability may be a problem for Tower Ladders and Tillered Aerials are able to get through the winding and narrow streets. As far not using Tower Ladders for the rest of city it really shouldn't be a problem as like was already mentioned Long Beach has been using a Tower Ladder in it's fleet for quite a few years already. Huntington Beach was also using a Tower Ladder as do a few other towns in Southern California, I have do have a theory however. In 1970 Los Angeles did have two large 85 foot Snorkel companies with one at Station 3 and one at Station 27. On July 5th 1970 Snorkel 3 had flipped over when it was extended at a reported fire on the eighth floor of a Hotel in Downtown Los Angeles. Fire fighter Thomas Collier was killed. It turned out that one of the outriggers wasn't fully extended after an investigation as to the cause of the accident. Right after the accident Snorkel 27 was also taken out of service and neither of the two Large Snorkel were ever put in back in service. The Los Angeles City fire department did continue using four ,50 foot Snorkels that were assigned as Wagons on 4 of the 5 Heavy Duty Task Forces that were downgraded to conventional Task Forces in 1978. Two of the 50 foot Snorkels were then removed and their Engines were converted to standard Engines and the other two 50 foot Snorkels were reassigned to to other fire stations such as 95 and 40 where they ran until the mid 1980's. I believe that the Los Angeles Fire Department management had developed an aversion to High Aerial Platforms after the accident n 1970 and since then it has been institutionalized. Other wise I think that the LAFD would have at least tried using a Tower Ladder by now. It still is true however that in the Santa Monica mountains the Tillered Aerials may be the only type of Ladder apparatus that can negotiate some of the roads so if they did use a Tower Ladder they might be restricted to what roads it would have access to in the mountains.

Mesabill , Does Scottsdale have 4 or 5 Ladder companies? I had thought that there were Truck companies at Stations 2 , 3, 4 and 11. I didn't know about one being at Station 16. If I'm correct the Trucks at Stations 2 and 3 are Tower Ladders and they also have an Engine company assigned to them while the ones at Stations 4 and 11 are actually 75 foot Aerial Ladder/Quints that also run as Truck companies when following neighboring Engine companies, Am I correct? I'm from out of town so I don't always have the latest information about what's going on in the Phoenix area. I'm quite impressed on many of the departments in your area have large fleets of Tower Ladders and how some departments are even using Bronto Skylifts.