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Polecat so in other words the Air Cushions are actually carried on the Trucks which apparently means that the Trucks in LA have plenty of space for additional equipment on board.. Thanks.

FS 46 I have never heard of Station 9 having a Heavy Utility unit there. I know that many years ago Station 14 had one around the late 1940s and then they had been moved Old Station 3 on Hill street years later, They also were at Station 6 in the mid 1960s and didn't they have at least 2 in service for a while with one at Station 88 and the other One at Station 6 which was moved to Station 27? Station 9 did have Squad 9 before they were assigned as the first of the Heavy Duty Task Forces however Squad 9 wasn't a Salvage Unit but it was LA's first Manpower Squad which was originally at Station 23 and then when they opened Station 9 it was relocated to Station 9. Squad 9's apparatus was similar in appearance to the Salvage companies however they originally responded in the Central City for their manpower and they were also one of the first companies to have SCBA airmasks before they assigned them to the Engines and Trucks years ago. That Squad initially was put in service the late 1940s when they were at old Station 23. I know that LA City ran with many Salvage units however I had heard that only a few of them that were assigned in the downtown and Hollywood Areas had a full compliment of manpower which was at least 4 or 5 men while most of the others only ran with 2 or 3 people. I also know that they had changed the designations of the Salvage Units to "Squad" Units in early to mid 1960s. Would know why they changed that designation? I think that it maybe because they might have put inhalators (resusicitators) on them and had them respond on some EMS runs before they started adding more Ambulances to the fleet. I know that the Heavy Utility Wrecker eventually was redesignated as a Heavy Rescue not that long ago when they were relocated to Station 56 but I was wondering if the LA City fire department ever had any real Heavy Rescue Squads years ago like perhaps the 20s or the 30s? I know that currently the Light Forces actually do most of the Heavy Rescue work as well the Truck work in LA city. I know that it wasn't until the late 60s that the LAFD took over the City Ambulance service from the Central Receiving Hospital and that the fire department was only running the Ambulances in the Valley before that. Perhaps you can tell me about that Older Cadillac ambulance at the Museum at Station 27. Was that Ambulance used only for the fire fighters or did it do EMS work for the public? I believe it's a 1956 Cadillac. Thanks.

The Chicago Fire Department had used Tillered Aerial Ladders for years just like many other big city fire departments did. In 1965 of Chicago's then 62 Truck companies 58 of them were using TDA's and the other 4 were Mack/Magirus rear mounted Aerial Ladders whose Ladders were manufactured in Germany by the Magirus company. They were purchased in 1959 and 2 were 100 feet in height while the other 2 were 144 feet in Height and amongst the Tallest Aerial Ladders in the United States at the time. Most of Chicago's TDA's had 85 foot Wooden Aerials on them and only 5 of them had Metal Telescopic Aerials and of those 5 two of them were retrofitted on two older trailers that had wooden ladders on them when delivered. Chicago was still purchasing Wooden Tillered Aerial Ladders in the 1950s and from 1954 through 1956 the CFD purchased 25 Wooden TIllered Aerials. Of the 5 metal TDA"s 3 of them were purchased in 1942 and of the 2 retrofits one was done in 1959 and the other was done in 1963. Chicago began a large scale fire apparatus replacement program beginning in 1966 and by 1976 most all of Chicago's TDA's had been replaced by new Non Tillered Aerials with the vast majority being rear mounted ladders. Chicago's famous Fire Commissioner Robert J Quinn who had been the Fire Commissioner from 1957 until 1978 decided to give the idea of Tillered Aerials a last hurrah and in 1975 he sent 5 1954 model TDA trailers to the Seagrave company in Clintonville Wisconsin where they totally rehabbed and rebuilt the trailers and they also installed brand new 100 foot Metal Retractable Aerial Ladders on the trailers and the CFD had also purchased 5 International Harvest Cargostar Tractors for the "new" Aerial Ladder trailers and they were put in service in 1976. Chicago ran them in frontline service until between 1988 and 1989 when most of them of them were taken out of frontline service and it was one of those TDA's that was used as "Truck" 46 in the beginning of the movie Back Draft. In Chicago the Highest number Truck company is Tower Ladder 63 at O"Hare Airport. Chicago's Truck's 46 and 43 were both taken out of service on November 16th 1971 so Chicago is currently running with 61 Truck companies of which 10 of them are Tower Ladders and the remainder are rearmounted Aerial Ladders. Of the 51 rear mounted Aerial Ladders 49 of them range in Height from 100 to 103 feet and Truck 8 recently received a 2019 model 137 foot E/One Aerial Ladder with a Prepiped Waterway and so it is Officially called Aerial Tower 8. Truck 1 has a 2006 model Pierce Heavy Duty Aerial Ladder with a Prepiped Waterway and it is officially designated as Aerial Tower 1. None of our other front line straight Truck companies are equipped with Prepiped Waterways however we have a 1988 model E/One 135 foot rear mounted Aerial Ladder that acts as a spare rig for the other two Aerial Tower companies and it used to be assigned as Aerial Tower 1 before it was replaced in 2006. As to why Chicago doesn't use TDA's the bottom line is probably the cost involved in purchasing the apparatus which wouldn't match the other Truck companies and having to train and qualify some members to be Tillered Ladder drivers on those rigs. Many fire departments went away from using TDAs years ago however there are some fire departments that use them exclusively due to some tight streets and some narrow turns where they can be more easily be maneuvered. New York City got rid of most of their TDA's except for 13 Ladder companies that are located in some areas were they have very narrow streets and they need to have them there. Boston took all of theirs out of service and Houston and San Antonio no longer uses them however Dallas runs with 7 of them. San Francisco runs with them completely because of the hills and some narrow streets where they are more maneuverable. A case can be made for them in a few congested areas of Chicago which tend to be near the Lakefront due to some narrow streets however there are no plans for any at the moment. I know that Los Angeles uses them exclusively as they needed them in the narrow streets and some of the curves in the Santa Monica Mountains however I have also seen some pretty wide streets in Los Angeles where they could probably manage without them also.

Thanks for the reply EMT_FS46. I had read a few years ago that some of the LAFD Trucks carried some extra large air cushions as well. The Trucks in LA must have alot of cabinet space to carry those bags. It's interesting that Truck 9 is not part of Light Force since Engine 209 became a fully manned Engine company. You might know that at one time Station 9 actully had run with 3 Triples as you call them as it was one of 4 Heavy Duty Task Force stations where there was a Wagon , a Pump and a 2 hundred series Engine which ran as a fully manned company. I believe that the 200 series Engine might have been equipped with a Tele Squirt device on the apparatus. I think that the Pump was actually the Light Force Engine that ran attached to Truck 9. Those Heavy Duty Task Forces were eliminated in 1978 when the Jarvis amendment was passed in the California State Legislature which cut funding for the California fire departments and other agencies.

I was wondering what was the matter with the Helmets that the LAFD is already using? In other words what was the impetus for changing the Helmet style? Were there any complaints about them? Were there any issues with them? You have been using them so long already that the LA style helmets have become a LAFD tradition. I was wondering what year did the LAFD go the famous LA style helmets which you apparently are changing from?

California Red I agree that it would be nice if Chicago had a message board however when ever there is a new posting on the Chicago Area fire departments website is there is an open "Comments" section that you are allowed to post observations and opinions on and the comment section does end up being a message board as long as the message is related more or less to the article or the photo that was posted. The FDNY does have an excellent "Forum Board" where not only can you post questions but the there are many forums on that board that allows to you categorize the your question or statement as to what it is related to on the FDNY. I don't really know if you are into the New York City Fire Department or not but if you are here's the link https://www.nycfire.net/forums/. Getting back to Chicago's Jump Bag Units, as someone else mentioned here the Jump Bags that they are talking about are these large inflatable "Cushion" type bags for Jumpers or people threatening to Jump. They are what have replaced the the old time lifenets that Truck companies used carry as standard equipment. Chicago unit 562 was unfortunately taken out of service 3 years ago on September 5th 2017. I really don't understand why it was taken out of service because it was an unmanned unit and when it would be needed the Truck or Engine company that it was quartered with would drive the Van to the scene if requested. Chicago was running with 3 Jump Bag Units and they were designated 561,562 and 563. 561 was located more or less in the Center of City at Engine 4 and Tower Ladder 10's house on the near north side,562 was located on the northside at Engine 124 and Truck 38's quarters and 563 was located on the southside at Engine 47 and Truck 30's quarters. As far as I know units 561 and 563 are still in service but the North Side Jump bag unit 562 is not in service. When the jump bag units were initially put in service around the late 80s they were colocated with Chicago's Squad companies of which there were and still are 4 of them in service. Three of them are in the City Proper and a 4th one is located at O"Hare International Airport which is on City Property but is actually beyond the City Limits. Since the around 2000 the Air Bag Units were relocated else where. Since you are from Los Angeles, I presume, I have a question for you. I know that several of your Truck companies (Light Forces) have been equipped with Jump Bags and I was wondering if the Jump Bags are actually carried on the Ladder Trucks or is there seperate vehicle or Van that goes with the Light Force when the Jump Bags are needed. On the subject of Lifting Airbags I know that the Ladder units in Los Angeles carry alot of equipment on them. Chicago's Trucks do carry Hurst tools on them however the Truck companies here don't carry any Airbags for lifting and only our Squads carry the Lifting bags. I think that it would be a good idea if some of Chicago's Truck companies would carry Lifting bags like they do in Los Angeles so that we wouldn't always have to wait for a Squad company to show up in order to use the bags.

I believe that someone in the department of Fleet Management wasn't making a big deal about the green lights missing and since most of the light bars tend more commonly be built with blue and red lighting for the Police and other Fire Departments that don't use green lights. they just let it happen. If you notice on some of the youtube videos from Chicago there still is a smaller green flashing light built next to the front grill or fender area of the new Squads. Even the video of Battalion 1 leaving it's quarter's has a smaller green light below the grill.. You may or may not know that a few years ago(in 2016) the CFD had gotten several solid red Chiefs "buggies" (as we call them in Chicago) and the following order ( in 2018)we went back to black over red. Well now disappointing as it may be to us traditionalists the latest group of buggies are once again solid red however the new light bars do have a green light on them now. Here is a photo of Chicago;s latest buggies that were recently put in service. We just also received several solid black suvs for the Commissioner and some of the High Ranking "Brass".

The Chicago Fire Department started the famous Red and Green Light Tradition roughly between 1927 and 1931 when Albert Goodrich was the Fire Commissioner. His family had owned a Steamship company and to honor the "maritime tradition" he not only applied Green and Red Lights to the fire apparatus but also each fire station had a small green light on one side of the bay door or doors to the station and a small red light on the other side. They symbolize the Port and Starboard sides of a ship.

I haven't noticed it mentioned here so I will. The LAFD put a 4th Fast Response unit in service at Station 82. The first one was put in service at Station 91 and the next one is at Station 9 however I understand that it originally started off at Station 20 and the third one I understand is at Station 64. They are really a small brush patrol unit and are also equipped as a an ALS paramedic unit and they actually patrol their districts most of the time and act as a first responder unit. I know that the one in Station 91's district was put their because Station 91 has a very large first in district and it helps relieve the workload and cuts down on the Ems responses for Engine 91 and Station 9 is continuously busy due to the homeless epidemic in the district. I was wondering if Fast Response 64 and 82 only patrol in their station's first in districts or if for example Fast Response 64 also patrols in Station 65's district and I was wondering if Fast Response 82 is limited to Station 82's district or whether they also patrol Station 27's district as well?

Thanks buckeye.

Is Station 188 supposed to be with the Phoenix fire department? If so what town will it be in as a 3 digit number for Phoenix usually means that the station is not in Phoenix proper?

Thanks for the information.

Thanks for the reply but are they now calling the Chief Battalion 706 as in most places when an accident occurs they just put a "spare buggy" in service and they just resume identifying the Battalion Chief by it's regular number.

During the last week I have noticed a Battalion 706 that was listed on the apparatus run down of 2 Major Emergency fires in Los Angeles. The first one which I had noticed was at 9041 W Pico on 7/24/2020 and more recently at 2994 W Pico at the fire on 7/27/2020. Is that a new company or a new designation or is it a "Special Operations Battalion Chief"? What is it's function and where is it stationed at? Speaking of Chiefs. I know that a few years ago the Traditional Fire Divisions were replaced with 4 Area Commands. Here is my question. I have only been noticing Command 22 from the Central Command and Command 42 from the Valley Command at listed at most Major Emergencies but I rarely if ever notice the Commanders from the West and the South Commands. Is it that only the Central and Valley Commands are due on the Major Emergencies. I appears that Command 22 also responds to Fires in the West and South Commands. What are the radio signatures for the West and South Commands? I know that the Central Command is 22 and the Valley Command is 42.

Yes you are right that if it is an "Airport company"they are required to be painted Lime or Yellow as it is a "Federal Regulation". One thing that they are lucky about however is the LA city station 95 seems to "technically speaking" be on Airport property yet the vehicles at that Station aren't required to be painted Lime or Yellow so everyone located there is Red and White.

I am aware that San Diego has been contracting EMS ambulance service with a private contractor since at least the 1990's. The contractor had been Rural Metro until AMR had acquired Rural Metro to my understanding. I recall that when Rural Metro had run the Ambulances there about 29 of the Ambulances that were Stationed at various fire stations and there were another 6 to 10 Ambulances that ran during the busier hours from the afternoon through the late evening and were what is known a "dynamic deployment" which means that those ambulances were basically located at locations out on the streets and those Ambulances were shifted around depending on where most of the call volume was so they would be moved to where there were gaps in coverage at the time day. My question is are the most of the full time ambulances still located at designated fire stations and are there still part time ambulances that are only in service during the busier hours and are they located at street locations or are they also located at the fire stations? I know that in the late 1990s when Rural Metro had the contract the "power shift" or the busy hour ambulancs had been stationed at the San Diego Fire repair shops when they weren't on duty and they would deploy from the Shops on Kearney Villa road and would fan out around the city when they would go into service in the midday time. Does San Diego still run with designated BLS ambulances and do they run from firestations or are they located at hospitals or at street locations also? Do you have the amount of and the current locations of San Diegos Ambulance Units. Does Station 35 currently run with an Ambulance in its district and does Station 29 still run with 2 Ambulances? I recall that in the late 1990s an Ambulance had run out of LIndbergh FIeld out of the ARFF house and that it was designated as Medic 63. Is it still located and running out of Lindbergh Field? Thanks.

Yes because the sooner they get the new rigs delivered and on the street the better. Speaking of new rigs. I know that over the last 3 years the LA City fire department finally started putting some Engine companies back in service that were taken out of service during the recession and about a year ago a Ladder or Truck company (Light Force 38) was put back in service however it would be good if they started formulating plans to put several other Light Forces back in service as before the recession there were 49 Trucks in service and now there are 43. I don't understand why they took Light Force 28 out of service and replaced it with an Engine especially if you consider that was in one of the newest fire stations at the time and they really weren't far from Engine 8. You would figure with 2 stations near each other they would let Station 28 keep the Light Force while Station 8 would keep the Engine as a Light Force can operate as both an Engine or as a Truck company. I also know that LA CIty lost 2 Battalion Chiefs as well as several EMS field supervisors too.

Those are really nice shots of the new apparatus. I hope that they perform as good as they look as according to a previous post there has been another delaying in getting some of the new rigs delivered due to "Warranty Work".

I noticed that LA City Station 15 has both an Advanced Provider Unit and an Alternate Destination Unit. What exactly is an Alternate Destination Unit? I saw a 2 second video of the Alternative Destination Unit and it appeared to be more of an SUV van as opposed to an Ambulance Unless that was just a spare rig, I know that the intention of of Advanced Provider Unit is to try and handle some of the "Frequent Flyer's" by treating them on the scene or referring them to more appropriate local resources then to always take them to the ERs which may be unneccessary.

Perhaps the LAFD would eventually order Seagrave Engines again however believe it or not its been thirty years since the Lafd last ordered a Seagrave Aerial Ladder. It's only been 14 years since the LAFD last received new Seagrave Engines. It seems as if Seagrave had priced themselves out of the Aerial Ladder Market in Los Angeles years ago.

So these specially trained paramedics seem like they would be functioning similar to the crew on the Advanced Provider Units as they also attempt to divert patients from always going to an ER and finding a altemate or a more appropriate course of treatment. Do you know what the dispatch protocol is for the Alternate Destination Unit. Do they first dispatch an Ambulance or an Assessment company and once they are on the scene they call for the Alternate Destination Unit or the Advanced Provider Unit if the paramedics deem it appropriate?

Thanks for sending the information, however why would it take the paramedics on the Alternate Destination unit to be able to send a patient to an Mental Health Urgent Care center of a Sobering Center? Shouldn't any Lafd paramedic be able to do that.I would figure that Paramedics that are assigned to any of the Ambulances or Assessment companies should have the training and authorization fo send patients to an Alternate Destination. To only have one such unit assigned to one station who can do that seems like a poor use of resources. There are patients all over the city that I am sure can be diverted so why keep the only unit with that kind Authority just located at Station 15? It just doesn't seem to make sense.

Thanks h_par202. I had thought so.

I understand that before the Modified Coverage Plans and the reductions in the fire companies and the manpower , that 3 of the 4 Haz Mat Squads had dedicated crews or manning assigned to them and only one of them was a "swing manning company". Before the reductions in manpower which of the Haz Mat Squads was the Swing company and which 3 had dedicated crews? I am aware that as now only HazMat Squad 21 is fully manned and that it had been Squad 4 before the reductions. When any of the other Haz Mat Squads are now called for does the Engine that they are quartered with go out of service and does the Engine crew instead respond with the Squad or does the Light Force that they are quarted with respond with the LIght Force and they just have one of the Light Force Crew Drive the Haz Mat Squad to the scence along with the LIght Force as a "third unit"? Before all of of the manpower and company reductions I believe that it was either Squad 95 or Squad 48 that was a "Swing company" but I am not sure which one. In other places what you might call a "Swing company" company are called "Jump companies" where the crew of one unit jumps onto a second "unmanned" untt and the first unit temporarily goes out of service. Also in a related question, I am aware that only USAR Squad 88 has a dedicated 2 man crew assigned to it and the other 5 USAR Squads have to respond with the crew of a "Co/located company" if the USAR is called for. When the USARS are called for do their Engines go out of service and the 4 man crew "jump" or respond with the USAR Squad or is it that the LIght force reponds with the USAR Squad and one of the Light Force members drive the USAR to the scene? Even though USAR 88 is "techically speaking" manned with a 2 man crew, we all know that 2 men assigned to a USAR Squad is really less then a full crew so when USAR 88 responds to an incident does Light Force 88 respond with it in order for it to have a full size crew or does Engine 88 respond with it to have a full size crew? In other words who responds with USAR 88 so that they can have full sized crew with them? Thanks

So are these ALS Squads intended to replace the Clark County Fire Department ambulances or are they just there to supplement the Ambulances? Thanks