Rescue51

Question about SDFR and platforms

32 posts in this topic

I may be missing something, but it is interesting that any of the aerials that San Diego Fire Rescue have, I do not know of any platforms (only ladders) in their current multi-generation models.  So, are there any platforms in SDFR, and if not, I wonder why.  Even Heartland Fire & Rescue has two aerial platforms (T6 + T11).  Thanks in advance, for your insights.  ~Rescue51

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Another question on aerials, why are mid-mounts rarely seen around here but more popular in the East Coast??  Thanks in advance.  ~Rescue51

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Platforms are not really a big thing for most California departments. Seems like only some of the smaller departments have them.

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In regards to mid-mounts I believe the big attraction is they have a lower overall height. With east coast departments having older fire stations with lower app bay heights, it's the only aerial they can fit in their station.

Although Escondido has a mid-mount.

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San Diego seems to be the last metropolitan department on the West Coast that hasn't gone tillered and their trucks are all straight stick aerials just like many East Coast Departments. 

Edited by RicardoBerg

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On 12/31/2017 at 10:51 PM, Rescue51 said:

SDFR has the one Spartan TDA (T1).  Not sure how much longer that will be front-line.

I've heard that unit is in the shops more than the station.

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On 12/29/2017 at 0:46 AM, Rescue51 said:

I may be missing something, but it is interesting that any of the aerials that San Diego Fire Rescue have, I do not know of any platforms (only ladders) in their current multi-generation models.  So, are there any platforms in SDFR, and if not, I wonder why.  Even Heartland Fire & Rescue has two aerial platforms (T6 + T11).  Thanks in advance, for your insights.  ~Rescue51

Rescue 51 I have noticed that also and I'm not from San DIego but I am a fan of the San DIego fire department and I know that the San Diego Fire Department was one of the few West Coast fire departments that was still using some Aerial Platforms in the late 1990's and the early 2000's. At one time they did own  4 Tower Ladders and they had a Snorkel running as Truck 14. When they went to solid red fire engines and started buying their current Pierce Aerial Ladder Trucks they have seemed to forgo purchasing any Tower Ladders or Snorkels. I know that San DIego was having serious financial problems and budget shortfall's during the recession and I also know that San DIego was running behind in building new fire stations however over the last few years it is attempting to catch up with buiding some newer stations that have been called for. Perhaps they were only buying straigtht aerials  because they were on a tight budget and the straight aerials were less money then a Tower Ladder. They also could have had some weight problems with thier tower ladders and  they could have had some clearence problems on some of the streets or in some of the fire stations.

This is only speculation however as I am not from San Diego.

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San Jose Fire Dept. was a west coast large city using mostly platforms for a long time (only two Crimson TDA's in fleet) until a purchase of four Pierce TDA's around 2013 and o delivery of one more last year. There are still many platforms and a few mid mounts still in service as front line trucks and reserves but the fleet is going all TDA. Santa Clara County FD has all platforms and straight sticks in their fleet even with new purchases. Can't think of any other large departments in No Cal running all platforms.

 

 

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Shoub in recent years the only Platform in San Jose that am familiar with had been aasigned to Truck 29 on the north end of town which has been using a Tower Ladder for a long time . I understand that the Tower Ladder that Truck 29 had been using is no longer at Truck 29 however it may be a reserve Truck now unless it was reassigned.  it was a 1993 Simon. As far as their other Truck companies go I know that before the y started purchasing and receiving their latest TIllered Aerial Ladders from Pierce they were using several some rear mounted and at least one mid mounted straight Aerial Ladder and I know that  they did have a Pierce Snorkel in service which may still be a reserve unit unless it was sold by now.  I also know that the Truck companies in San Jose were running as 2 piece companies for a long time and the second piece was a utility Squad that carried some Heavy Rescue Squad tools and power and Lighting equipment however  I don't believe that they are still running with the second piece anymore. Could you tell me which Truck companies in San Jose were running with Aerial Platforms and when they were assigned plus the type of Platform that they were running with? Thanks.

Edited by firepost

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Thanks 'Firepost', good information.  TDA's have an afterlife, turn them into a moving toolbox (heavy rescue and/or USAR).  The Pierce in the pics, is actually a brand new built TDR (tractor drawn rescue) with a crane! 

223af4bbe29be9cfef722bb670b9decb--fire-trucks-firefighters.jpg

acb68ec1ba0f34307a6661f481a093e4--rescue-vehicles-big-trucks.jpg

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On 1/28/2018 at 1:03 PM, Rescue51 said:

Thanks 'Firepost', good information.  TDA's have an afterlife, turn them into a moving toolbox (heavy rescue and/or USAR).  The Pierce in the pics, is actually a brand new built TDR (tractor drawn rescue) with a crane! 

223af4bbe29be9cfef722bb670b9decb--fire-trucks-firefighters.jpg

acb68ec1ba0f34307a6661f481a093e4--rescue-vehicles-big-trucks.jpg

Is squad zilla still running?

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:31 AM, firepost said:

Shoub in recent years the only Platform in San Jose that am familiar with had been aasigned to Truck 29 on the north end of town which has been using a Tower Ladder for a long time . I understand that the Tower Ladder that Truck 29 had been using is no longer at Truck 29 however it may be a reserve Truck now unless it was reassigned.  it was a 1993 Simon. As far as their other Truck companies go I know that before the y started purchasing and receiving their latest TIllered Aerial Ladders from Pierce they were using several some rear mounted and at least one mid mounted straight Aerial Ladder and I know that  they did have a Pierce Snorkel in service which may still be a reserve unit unless it was sold by now.  I also know that the Truck companies in San Jose were running as 2 piece companies for a long time and the second piece was a utility Squad that carried some Heavy Rescue Squad tools and power and Lighting equipment however  I don't believe that they are still running with the second piece anymore. Could you tell me which Truck companies in San Jose were running with Aerial Platforms and when they were assigned plus the type of Platform that they were running with? Thanks.

Firepost, Thanks for the information. Actually, SJFD has a mix of platforms, midmounts, and straight ladders as well as the new TDA's. I am not sure about the current T-29 but this website is a great resource for apparatus listings in the department. They show the Simon-Duplex as their front line unit. I do know that truck companies are no longer running as two piece responses. 

http://www.yourfiredepartment.org/SJS/Apparatus.html

 

 

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orange squad 6 is no longer staffed, it was taken out of service about 3 years ago due to budget problems. it has now been re-configured as orange usar 1 and is cross staffed by orange truck 1 as needed

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1 hour ago, RicardoBerg said:

TDA's are the best.

Can you please back this statement up with some job related facts? Why are they the best? And why are they the best for every jurisdiction? Can you provide a list of advantages and disadvantages? I look forward to your thoughtful reply.

Edited by E0001

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Maneuverability is tops. With new housing developments being built with smaller streets, it's extremely difficult to get a huge rear mount tower in there. Especially with cars parked on the street. Not to mention driving through heavy city traffic. Tillers here in AZ. haven't caught on with the exception of Buckeye,  and they definitely need it for the community of Verrado, which has very narrow streets. Most depts. probably prefer a tower for safety reasons,  but a tiller will get you into tight spots.

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I think a mixture of platforms and straight ladders is the way to go in San Diego.  Platforms are safer for FF's at top, are better to affect raised rescues.  TDA's are good for maneuverability as mentioned above.  i believe the TDA's have more storage capacity great for storing all the rescue tools these days.  The newer Pierce Ascendant might offer attractive possibilities/performance with its single rear axle and 107 foot ladder, or option of 110 foot platform.  Though you lose storage space.  Also, time will tell how the Ascendant holds up with miles/wear & tear due to the heavy weight on chassis, suspension, etc.. 

Edited by Rescue51
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Speaking of Platforms ,  I find it odd that the Long Beach fire department has been running with a Tower Ladder at their Truck 7 for a long time now  yet they seem to be the only fire department that I know of in Los Angeles County that runs with a Tower Ladder.  They are the 7th largest city in California with a little under half a million people. 

The fact that they have been using a Tower Ladder does throw cold water on the idea and the concept that  they are unable to effectively use Tower Ladders (Platforms) in the Los Angeles area.

As far as Los Angeles City goes I know that up in the Santa Monica Mountains where there are narrow winding streets their Tiller Ladders come in handy and are probably the only large aerial rigs that can be maneuvered there however I don't see why a Platform or a Tower Ladder can't be used in the rest of the city ( south and north of the Santa Monica mountains) where there seem to be quite a few wide boulevards.

There were at one time a couple of other fire departments that in tthe Los Angeles County area that ran with a few Platforms or Tower Ladders but I don't think they still are running with them. I am not from the area so perhaps someone  might have more accurate information on Tower Ladders in that area. 

I am keeping the subject primarlly to Tower Ladders as I know that years ago  during the (mid 60's and 70's) some fire departments were using "Snorkels" in the Los Angeles area , but that is another story.

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Ladder, truck preference is kind of like Apparatus color, hotly debated at the Chief meetings and the Station kitchen table.  In some cases it a function of cost,  the ability to get as much out of a buck as possible.  Ladder units are running real close to a million dollars and bean counters tend to squirm a bit when its brought up at budget meetings, Station capability is another factor, some agency ordered a ladder and after delivery found that it would not fit in the intended station.  And then there is access.  Tillered  apparatus can maneuver in some areas better than non tillered apparatus.  LA County has adopted a tiller quint concept and some friends of mine have said the concept is a colossal waste and the dept is stuffing too much on a truck that was ment to carry LADDERS only, increasing annual maintenance  costs.  Now for those of you that remember such things, Houston Fire was operating Ladder only stations and it bit them bad when the closest unit was a ladder with no water and they could not rescue some kids, and the chief got his walking papers.  That's politics and that's a factor too. There is also a big argument going back 40 years about the FUNCTION of a ladder or Truck crew; are they a special crew, operating always above the fire, a rescue crew both, a pumper crew with a ladder, or what?  Most departments cant do what LAFD or FDNY does so ladder companies are kinda catch all crews or rolling tool boxes, like in Phoenix.  So sometimes the truck follows the function.  Oh yeah, don't forget about the department that gets a tiller or midmount, or rear mount because "the xyz Fire dept. is doing it"

Edited by e5911

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A few things to keep in mind about LAFD truck operations.  Los Angeles does have some wide streets, but a lesson learned long ago is that every piece of equipment must be able to cover any station.  So a truck from Downtown or Venice could end up in the Hollywood Hills or in an older part of town with 1930's era streets.  It should also be remembered that the Truck runs with an Engine (200 series) on every run, and can operate as an Engine company if needed.  The Firefighter positions rotate between apparatus, and "everyone can do everything."  Truck today, Engine tomorrow.

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47 minutes ago, Fyrchaser said:

A few things to keep in mind about LAFD truck operations.  Los Angeles does have some wide streets, but a lesson learned long ago is that every piece of equipment must be able to cover any station.  So a truck from Downtown or Venice could end up in the Hollywood Hills or in an older part of town with 1930's era streets.  It should also be remembered that the Truck runs with an Engine (200 series) on every run, and can operate as an Engine company if needed.  The Firefighter positions rotate between apparatus, and "everyone can do everything."  Truck today, Engine tomorrow.

That's one of the great things about the Los Angeles Fire Department Light Force concept is that the Trucks can also be used as an Engine company if necessary and in effect they are a two piece Quint. That particularly comes in handy when there is an extra alarm fire or  fires taking place and companies are needed to change quarters. For example in a Task Force house you could use the single Engine company to change quarters and the Light Force can still act as an Engine or a Truck company in it's district despite the Engine company being out of it's district.

It would be good if the LAFD could start putting the 7 Light forces that were taken out of service during the recession ,back in service, 

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