Rescue51

LAFD's New Pierce Tillers

253 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, pump305 said:

I found out that some of the reason's not in service are... The cab roofs where weak. When Pierce strengthen them now they leak. Also the turn table was not built to LAFD speck.

So what going to happen to them now? Are they being sent back to pierce? 

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This is something that Pierce can't afford to do (meaning have so many Trucks that don't meet the specs). The LAFD city contract can be quite lucrative and Pierce was lucky to get the contract so they really better make good on it quickly. I would figure that they would have had better quality control at PIerce especially after they were able to develop a sterling reputation to become the number 1 fire apparatus manufacturer. Here KME which wasn't known for quality service and American La France going out of business I would think that Pierce would be a lot more careful that they were able to get back into the LA market with the Aerial Ladder contract. In the late 90's and early to mid 2000's LA city was getting alot of their new Engines from Pierce and to be frank I am under the impression that the reason why they started buying from KME is because the city finances were so poor that they started going with a cheaper product. The last thing that LA City and Pierce needs is a bunch of Trucks that are not in good shape.

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I can see the roofs getting by inspections. But how did turn table get by with out notice

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Saw truck 11 back with in American la France  With its normal lettering today. 

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Here is one of our Engines a 2012 Arrow XT found in its natural position awaiting the mechanic Monday morning. Ours have been less than desirable the cab leaks all the way down through the a/c unit so in heavy ran water drips through the interior roof lights, the a/c unit has a terrible condensation drain system that leaks water all the time, when you walk on the cab roof it feels like your walking on the hood of a car as it literally bows in when you stand on it, the windows are always coming out of alignment, the back up camera is always going out because of wiring issues, low grade fluid hoses on the motor all had to be replaced early on, the Pierce automatic pressure governor has failed to engage on structure fires requiring us to completely turn off the engines and restart the entire rig, the compartment door sensors are always going out and the light blinks in the cab and the list goes on. 

We bought Pierce to replace E-One engines thinking we were buying the best but truly found out we were wrong and our engines are not spec'd low bid, we switched to Sutphen and have not been disappointed one bit. I will say I like the Foam System and CAFS system Pierce produces over the Foam Pro System on our Sutphens, Tak-4 independent front suspension rides and handles better than any leaf spring straight axle front end and the paint job and gold leafing are flawless we even buy the Pierce gold leaf for our Sutphens. 

 

fullsizeoutput_2e1.jpeg

Edited by tnluke401

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Reading through  Chuck Madderom's book, "Los Angeles City Fire Apparatus 1953-1999 Photo Archive", this isn't unprecedented. There were several apparatus orders over time that not accepted, modified, and/or were returned for a multitude of reasons.

As has been noted earlier in this thread.......

LAFD must have sent their apparatus committee to Wisconsin several times for inspection, especially with an order this large. I believe the grey aerial was the "prototype", and most likely was looked over with a microscope. And I know the cabs go through a torrent of water to simulate rain and make sure there are no leaks at the factory. Also, the Arrow XT was specifically designed for the LAFD Engine contract several years ago.

One item also should be noted, that despite different chassis and body manufacturers, LAFD has used the LTI Ladder for decades, and before that Seagraves. They also returned several 19972 Thibault Ladder trucks due to mechanical problems with the ladder, and had them replaced with Seagrave ladders. And the ALF LTI Aerials seem to sit lower in front of the tillerman, where the Pierce sits very high, leading to a more obstructed view. The turntables, as far as I can see, are different on the ALF and Pierces.

Something is not right here, you have a few million dollars worth of apparatus just sitting at the dealer when they should have been delivered months ago. Part of me wonders if it is something simple because LAFD wants them delivered all at once due to possible space or logistical issues, such as training (I know, a longshot with that reason). Maybe awaiting parts. Another aspect is that LAFD is withholding payment to Pierce until these items are resolved. It could quite possibly be both sides pointing the finger at each other as to who's problem is, or just waiting for the implementation off thee fix.

I'm really looking forward to ending the speculation and hearing what is really up with this, and the disposition of these trucks.

 

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The man who told me about the roof and turn table would not spread rumors. LAFD has a strick and sometimes over the top requirements when it comes to the bidding. Pierce actually didnt want the bid but LAFD made a sweet deal in a long term relationship.

x635 likes this

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nobody is disputing that la city is a tough customer, they are used to getting things done their way, but there is some missing information  missing here that nobody is disclosing right now. every apparatus dealer has problems with new deliveries , that's why they have warrenties to correct problems, which i'm sure pierce will do. we have 10 pierce rigs ranging in years from 1989 up to 2016 , we have had some small issues, but pierce was very responsive and corrected the issues in a timely manner . like I said in a previous post, pierce does not build crappy apparatus, just take a look at how many departments are leaving kme, seagrave, e-one, and so-on and buying pierce. these numbers don't lie. like I said there is more to this story than is being disclosed at this time

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I hate to burst your bubble joeky48 but Pierce is capable of building crappy apparatus.  Cab roofs are not weak and leaking, the trailer decking is weak and water is leaking into the compartments.  That is just one of the items on a laundry list of problems with the new trucks.  Sad thing is the list of items were brought up to Pierce months ago with very little support to correct them.  Now, all six will be going back to Wisconsin for the required repairs.  As far as the turntable, that is a Pierce design.

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I wonder how long this contract with Pierce is or is it by order's or years?  Maybe for the next bid they should consider going with a different company

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waterguy, the original post said CAB roofs were leaking, which I said was very hard to believe since all cabs from the saber to the quantum are all produced on the same production line, and there is no other reports of any weak or leaking cabs.  .now the compartments on the tiller section I can see having issues with since they are all custom made in different configurations .I never said pierce builds a perfect apparatus, they don't, no app builder does, that is why they have warrenties to correct isssues like this.

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Waterguy, I'm assuming this one won't be delivered yet.  Or did they fix the issues with this one before it is sent out?  

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I'm sure Pierce fixed whatever problems there were before completing the order. The rigs that have already been delivered. If they can not fix the issues in Ontario then they will be sent back.

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6 hours ago, EMT_FS46 said:

I'm sure Pierce fixed whatever problems there were before completing the order. The rigs that have already been delivered. If they can not fix the issues in Ontario then they will be sent back.

The previous rigs were sent back. Hopefully they did their wise I would assume they just hold the deliver till it's fixed. 

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The first LAFD Pierce TDA, grey ladder, was spotted in Wisconsin 6 days ago.  

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Posted on Pierce's Flickr today.

8th TDA 

Shop # 60808

34515261526_2bc3a3f2c9_b.jpg

 

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Any word on the rigs that got sent back? I see this one already had its 50 ft ladder usually they come with out ladders.

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I saw the 7th TDA was delivered last week. Is it going to be the first in service? Where is it and the other pierce trucks going to be assigned?  What is the trickle down of old rigs going to look like?

Edited by fireag

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Philadelphia PA FD just cancelled their contract with KME for  tiller ladder's order and ordered  Pierce Tillers   

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On 5/15/2017 at 5:46 PM, fireag said:

I saw the 7th TDA was delivered last week. Is it going to be the first in service? Where is it and the other pierce trucks going to be assigned?  What is the trickle down of old rigs going to look like?

Additionally, I heard 26's is getting the 7th truck. 

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