New Pierce ladder- Ascendant

[Rescue51 44]

Short rig, single rear axle, for a 107 foot ladder!!  Nice!  Be interesting to see how she holds up over time.

 

http://www.piercemfg.com/Ascendant

[h_par202 7]

I hope Pierce will use this design to develop taller ladders. If it is as strong and durable as they say, I don't see why this cannot be applied to a dual-axle chassis with a longer reach.

[Rescue51 44]

Good point 'h_par202'.  I suppose the issue becomes basic physics and not having a longer ladder strain the truck side jacks too much, or even turn it over.  I suppose the new single-axle Pierce rigs with the 107 foot Ascendant, will solve many problems especially where there is limited maneuverability.  The loss of compartment space and putting more weight on the rig (like rescue gear), is actually in my view a plus, to get departments to stop using the trucks for everything (especially medical aid runs).  I like the concept Arizona has with the ladder tenders, that can also serve as rescues. 

 

[h_par202 7]

How does Arizona use ladder tenders? Do the two always run side-by-side? Or does the captain respond with the rig at his discretion?

[joeyk48 25]

rescue51 I think pierce has a good concept here, it will be interesting to see if it works out. but here in califorrnia  you will never see rescue tenders like in Arizona, there are several reasons why,  first off we can thank prop 13 for downsizing most departments forcing them to do more with less.  thus  dumping more trades and equiptment on the most staffed units which in most cities is the truck company. here in orange county we have paramedic trucks which in addition to there regular responsibilities also are rescue trucks, usar trucks swift water rescue units . basically rolling tool boxes. then you have city councils which are reluctant to give the fire departments any more money for additional units than they have to. the tiller trucks will continue to get bigger with more equipment being added to them

[h_par202 7]

But doesn't adding more equipment to a truck reduce the life span of a vehicle?

[Rescue51 44]

'Joeyk48', good points.  I agree, though I don't agree with what the city councils, other politicians, fire boards, or whoever, do when it comes to downsizing departments from staffing to rig, and other resources.   In El Cajon, Truck 6 (Heartland Fire & Rescue), is a Pierce platform without pump/tank, that became our area's rescue.  I am told Truck 6 spends almost as much time down out-of-service as available, because of the maintenance both scheduled and unscheduled.  Station 6's is a busy firehouse with a high volume of medical aids.  As such, with E6 committed to so many calls, you have T6 rolling on those calls, wearing the rig out.  So the issue is our area loses both ladder and rescue capacity every time T6 is tied up on a hangnail, or out-of-service because the poor rig designed to be a ladder for structures or rescue (because it has compartment capacity) is tired out, and it is not even all that old of a rig.   To 'h_par202', this would answer your question, that I submit that yes, more weight in form of tools does reduce it's life span.  I am not discounting at all the argument that you have all the capacity on a truck, why not use it, or that you already have staffing for it,  use it, but I say not at the expense of not having a truck as in T6 from El Cajon.  Use a small 4-person cab utility truck like other agencies, that can carry medical and/or rescue gear, and roll that on all the med aids with the truck crew.   I bet the cost to replace T6 earlier than needed, will exceed the capital and operating expenses of rolling a small rescue rig on the med aids, or a squad, versus a huge truck. I know, I sound like a parrot on this issue.

[EMT_FS46 23]

@rescue51 you have a valid point but it only would stand if El Cajon burned. Lets be honest with doing more with less is the reason why engines and trucks get sent on medical calls. in a ideal world I am sure all department would have a vehicle staffed that is dedicated to responding to ems calls. You can not cross staff for the reason of doing more with less. it is always the what if factor. Say you get dispatched to a ems call and leave the truck or engine in quarters and end up having a working fire or even returning home and get dispatch or even just come across one on the way home. Then liability comes into play with the well why didn't they take the engine or truck. I'm sure you get the picture and lets face it fire load decreases and medical calls increase.

[Rescue51 44]

@EMT_FS46, true-true.  In a perfect world we'd be like the old days like in Santee where they had what was sorta a ladder tender (Light & Air 4), a rescue (which they still have), and many of the East County departments then had rescues that most often were cross-staffed by the truck crew.  I think I like the system LA County Fire uses with the squads and then responding a box to the call.  Maybe that lacks manpower for the first-in.  There is something to be said about have 3-4 firefighters arrive on a call where maybe patient or family are 5150.  I'm sure most department chiefs and their respective boards/councils, are all working hard to make every dollar stretch far.  I am concerned though because as they wear out trucks, prematurely, due to EMS runs, are they gonna stop replacing the trucks too. 

[buckeyefyrfoto 16]

H_par202, Arizona runs ladder tenders on ems calls. They are small to medium sized rescue trucks that carry the same gear as a regular ladder company without the aerial device. They are staffed by the ladder company. The captain usually decides what rig they're taking on the call. Concept works very well here.

[Rescue51 44]

@ buckeyefyrfoto-- I think Arizona is thinking ahead instead of for this year.  On using trucks for EMS runs, in a rural community where you may only have staffing adequate for the variable calls that come in, a rig that does it all makes sense (like the MAX, Core, MVP from various manufacturers.  In an area like for instance, Heartland Fire & Rescue (El Cajon, La Mesa, Lemon Grove), if you using truck staffing to run a rescue rig/squad/ladder tender, to the EMS runs, and end up getting a structure response (or even rescue where you need the truck because that is carrying the gear), we have enough trucks in the area to cover that response.  But if we keep using trucks on the EMS hangnail and 5150 calls, we will wear those trucks out and they will be out-of-service for the next working structure fire.  OR, the controllers of funds will get fed-up with truck co$ts and end up in future not capitalizing/budgeting a truck (so we'll have less of them). 

 

[mesabill 18]

Ladder Tender type rigs would do good in Heartland/Central Zone because there is a half way decent amount of Truck Companies, that is the reason the concept works in Arizona. Just FYI, LT's over here vary from Light and Medium rescues to rescue pumpers, Phoenix FD LT's might match what HFRD needs

[h_par202 7]

Intersting concepts. So I'm assuming that there is no assigned driver for the truck. 

[mesabill 18]

Ladder Tender is cross staffed by Ladder Company crew, The Company Captain decides which rig to take. One issue that might be a problem with Heartland using a LT type system is cost, typically a LT carries all gear as a regular Ladder Company except the "Big Ladder". Suspect a 2nd complete set of Ladder Company gear might not be cheap.