Rescue51

New Heartland Fire & Rescue Type-3 brush rig

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I heard chatter from a FF in Heartland that a new and first brush rig is coming into town.  He thinks it will be assigned to El Cajon Station 9 (near Gillespie Airport).  No further details.  I figured they are putting it at 9's due to 9's not being a very busy house, but am surprised it does not go to 8's where the response time seems quicker to where more brush is.  But then again, maybe 8's has more Type-3 resources in that area.   Some other writer in this forum recently wrote San Miguel Fire (Cal Fire) is putting on-line 2 new Type-3 rigs, I surmise to replace the 2 they already have.  I think they came off a big bid/delivery Cal Fire did with HME.  I am not sure who built the new Heartland Fire & Rescue brush rig coming soon. 

Edited by Rescue51

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As of Saturday (10/18), word is the Type III will be assigned to Station 8.  It will be a County (yes, County) Type III Ferrara. Pretty interesting that a County rig will be housed and staffed at a City department.  Rig can be found by going to the Ferrara website using the link:

 

http://www.ferrarafire.com/NewDeliveries/Pages/brush_truck/5564.html

 

The (2) HME Type III's for San Miguel have arrived at the MVU shops and are awaiting tools to be mounted.  Word is they will be going to 14's and 16's and the older Westates will be assigned to 15's and 22's and will be kept as Reserves and will be staffed when the MVU Unit has staffing patterns.  

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Thanks "lkseng3"!  The new Ferrara Type-III going to Heartland Station 8's (El Cajon) is a nice looking rig.  My guess is the S.D. County purchased it or kicked in money for the rig, then Heartland pays for staffing/maintaining?  It's nice to see the S.D. County Fire Authority doing something like this.  I'm a bit surprised it went to 8's and not 7's.  I guess Cal Fire buys many of those HME Type-III's to they must get a good bulk purchase value price. 

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I've been wondering too.  I drive by there every so often, maybe a month ago and still no sign.  Just for what's worth for us East County people, I noticed what looked like a brand new Ferrara on the SR125 near Spring Street the other day, and could not see numbers but it did have a Cal Fire logo and another agency.  I was not sure if San Miguel is gonna get any new type 1's since they just got the two type-3 rigs.  I tend to think San Miguel's Pierce pumpers are holding up well, and maybe only a couple getting in range of age/miles of leaving the front-line. 

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BR8 is at Station 8 and has been for a few months now.  The last time I saw it there it was in the left bay (if you are facing the station) and is behind a Reserve Medic rig.  

 

As of the new Ferrara in Spring Valley, it was more than likely a County rig.  San Miguel uses a flat roof cab County Ferrara Type 1 as a reserve as well as for E7615.

 

San Miguel's board is in the decision phase of buying a new Type 1.  Looks like the decision will be between Pierce and Smeal.  The '05 Pierces are reaching 10 years old.  16's (7616) and 21's (7611) swapped their Pierces due to mileage and the wear and tear on 16's former Pierce.  18's (7218) and 19's (7619) swapped their Ferrara's due to the mileage on 19's former rig.  SMG's new Type 3's that were delivered a few months ago are still not in service due to when they were received, they were broken.  So SMG and HME are coordinating to get those in service. One will be going to Station 14 (64) and the other will go to Station 16 (66).  

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lkseng3, thanks, good information and I appreciate you using both the new SMG's & Cal Fire numbering system, in conjunction with old numbers (wish they had left it alone).  The swap between former E19's and E18's made good sense.  I'm guessing the busiest firehouse for SM Fire is 16's followed by 22's?   Wonder if SM Fire goes Smeal, if they do the urban interface rig like Lakeside's E2, E3.  I was thinking if SMG does new Type-1 rigs, if they'd get onto a bigger purchase order with HME, which seems to be where Cal Fire is sourcing all their Type-1's.  Is SMG still running the former E-One rescue out of station 23's as a L&A?

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They should have left them alone.  There were some politics going on which caused some changes like that.  16's (66) is now starting to seem like the busier station in SMG.  And you can look into to it, but there is no doubt a time delay in how fast Monte Vista dispatches any units into Heartland (ex. 19's).  It's just plain fact.  One of the things that was promised to SMG before the Cal Fire partnership was that they'd get dispatched just as well as Heartland Dispatch.  Well we can see how that ended up.  

 

As far as the busiest in SMG is 16 (66), 19 (69), and 14 (64).

 

If SMG does decide to go Smeal, they will be very similar to LKS. Cal Fire rarely buys any HME Type 1's.  What you may be referring to is OES (CAL EMA). They buy the HME Type 1's (Model 18).  

 

One thing you have to remember is SMG is their own department.  Cal Fire and SMG are 2 seperate entities that are in a partnership.  If SMG happens to go back, everything except for the suppression personnel (and some administrative) stays.  Rigs, stations everything stays SMG.  Now is there some influence from how Cal Fire operates to SMG? Yes.  Which if you think about it, is one of the reasons SMG is looking into a Smeal.  The SDCFA Chief happens to be from Riverside where Riverside runs nothing but those Smeal Engines.  So is there a little influence from Cal Fire? Very much so.

 

The E-One L&A is out of 15's (65) and is running as L&A7685.  Not to confuse this with R7685 (Ferrara Rescue).

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Thanks again LKSENG3, great info and insights!  Yes, I was not including former E19 run-volume in that San Miguel group.  I am old school, I still remember 18's/19's as East County Fire under Chief Jobes (spelling?), and before that wasn't it something like Crest-Bostonia Fire Protection?  Yes, E19 is a busy pumper.  Thanks for the correction on HME and Cal Fire for Type-I rigs.  I must be thinking the OES rigs (lime) like Lakeside got not too long ago (at 26's).     When I think of "66" I usually think Jamul, not San Miguel's E16. 

 

The East County Fire guys still must think the Ferrara rescue (R7685) got stolen out from under them.  Of course had it not been for SMG absorbing East County Fire, those paychecks would not be there.  It made more sense to me to see East County go with Lakeside or even Alpine. 

 

Speaking Lakeside, is the telesquirt (E26S) still out at 26's or did they sell that off?  And does Lakeside plan on getting another quint? 

 

Take care! 

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Great picture...ok now time to age some of us.....who remembers El Cajon's last dedicated grass/brush rig 4360 (grass 1) it was a late 50's early 60's GMC mini pumper style rig, it was in service into late 80's

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Hi MesaBill, I don't remember that one but do remember El Cajon using ALF pumpers and also Rescue-6 which was the Ford chassis where 3 guys all rode up front (as in front seat).

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When I was a kid they ran the engines and the truck were ALF open cabs, I remember the city's 1st FD ambulance, was a large station wagon style, then came the modified vans,4360 carried the vehicle rescue gear till the city annexed Gillespie Field and they got the twin agent rescue from SD county, the Ford/Pierce rescue replaced both 4381 and 4360 when it came into service

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El Cajon Ran American La France till around 1984 when 1st two Pierce Arrows came. At that time if I remember right their were three Century and one series 1000 Front line engines, two or three series 900 reserve engines and the 85' series 900 ladder. Bostonia bought one of the 900's that ran as 4912 for quite a while, was sweet to drive.

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Greetings 'MesaBill': Good information!  I lived in Santee as a kid and recall much about their department.  I recall their Snorkel which was on a Ford chasis (Pierce?), only 2-3 guys up in cab so the other FF's rode on the back like in old days.  I recall when I believe station 5 (when it was in the converted house @ Carlton Hills/Carlton Oaks, took delivery of a Crown pumper.  I recall the department had those military style AMC's (Kaisers?), I cannot recall but one may have been a water tender, the other a brush rig.  I'd see them on the mountains around Santee fighting brush fires on grades and in situations that you don't see them today.  Santee was progressive then in their paramedic service.  I recall their old Chevy station wagon, then a Dodge van.  Santee in I think early 80's got some E-One's, I think E4 and T4.  They also got a Chevy for a light & air that use to chase the truck around on structure responses.  Trying to remember their rescue before the big Chevy Kodiak that was a walk-in rescue and actually labelled on side for a while "heavy rescue."  They had those intentions of getting certified for a heavy rescue, but never did.  Santee also was going to have a HazMat unit, but think they did not realize what kind of budget you need for that investment/on-going expenses.  I also lived in Casa de Oro and recall the Chevy pick-up Spring Valley FD (before San Miguel FD) had, I think they used one for a paramedic kind of response (like in Emergency), and then later had one for a rescue.  I recall their open cab Crowns (like Lemon Grove too).   Lived in Alpine during the 80's and recall how East County Fire (once was Crest & Bostonia Fire) would auto-aid (or was that mutual then?) using E19 to run up the grade on responses to help Alpine's E17 (on structures and TC's).  Alpine's ambulance service consisted, I believe, of Aid (or A-19) and may have used also A-18 for a while, out of Bostonia and/or Crest...this was before the AMR contract for paramedic coverage.  Take care!

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The Santee 6x6's were cross staffed by E4221(Santee E1 back then)the ford/crown telesqurt for brush fires, your right one was a brush rig and one a water tender. I Remember listening to radio traffic during a fire out by Santee lakes when the operator on 4262 advised He had no brakes. Back in mid 70's El Cajon Fire dispatched Santee, Ladeside, and Spring Valley and was the zone 4 mutual aid dispatch, Heartland Dispatch came into being in 80's so before that you would hear the unit contact dispatch as the district/city they were in. Example would Santee 4223 responding, El Cajon 4370 at scene etc.. when the initial ddispatch was transmitted, say for a Structure in El Cajon they said El Cajon Fire Traffic, Engine 1, Engine 3, Truck 1, 4390 and 4303 respond Code 3 to......the units responded on air using the 4 digit MA numbers....loved scanner back then

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Alpine ran a Ambulance in late 70's till money issue hit and they shut it down, Crest always had a Ambulance of some type till San Miguel took over, Bostonia's ambulance program came into being in mid 90's as the department transactioned from volunteer to combo department, I think Crest did send their Ambulance to Alpine after the Alpine ambulances program was shut down.

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Just FYI some of the per Heartland Dispatch unit numbers: Lakeside E1 4111, E2 4112, E3 4113, Medic 1 etc, Santee E1 4221, E2 4222, E3 4223, Medic 2, 4261, 4262 etc, El Cajon E1 4321, E2 4322, E3 4323, E4 4324, T1 4370, Grass 1 4360, Medic 3, 4391 and so on. Spring Valley 4611, 4612, 4613 etc. The self or Police dispatched departments: La Mesa 4411, 4412, 4413,4471, 4461, 4481 so on, Lemon Grove had 4510 and 4511, Alpine 4710, 4711, 4790, 4760, Bostonia 4981, 4912, 4963, Crest 4811, 4812, 4891, 4861. The Grossmont-Mt.Helix were CDF and were Helix E1, E2, E3 and Squad 1.

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Thanks 'MesaBill', that's great stuff and brings back my memories on those unit #'s.  As a young teen, I lived across from Santee station 4.  I hung out there all the time (to the point I am sure they were tired of me).  But they did their own dispatch for Santee in the station 4 office.  That was in the early 70's.  That station was fairly new (the one on Cottonwood).  The one prior to that was their original one,  I think, on Mission Gorge, next to the old post office.  It was that building that looked like some old military hangar.  Back then when the new station 4 opened on Cottonwood, that was like state of the art in fire departments.

 

I think station 5 got the first Pierce which was the telequirt.  The other earlier deliveries were the E-Ones to station 4 for the pumper and truck.  All of us are eagerly awaiting to see when Santee replaces the tiller Truck 4.  It is aging.  Some are suggesting a Pierce, and one that this time is plumbed on the ladder, and even others are saying a pump/tank would not be bad as Santee has sort of out grown the fire department.  I would not be surprised that they perhaps just get a truck-tiller like now, and make it the primary rescue, sell Rescue 5, and put another pumper at 5s running it as E205 along with E5.  They have the pick-up truck that can tow the trailer with all the trench/confined space rescue resources, and supplement that with a new T4 with all the other rescue tools.  Just some speculation on my part because it seems the rescues are going away and their equipment getting placed on truck or rescue-pumpers seems to be the trend where departments need to economize their dollars.   I am of the contrary theory though where I believe instead of running trucks on all these medical aids, they need a utility truck with rescue tools/medical gear, or run a medium rescue rig.  El Cajon's T6 seems out-of-service more than it is in service due to all the wear from an enormous amount of medical aids running from station 6's.  And El Cajon T6 is a Pierce platform without tank/pump.  It did have all-steer which is no longer made, and a hassle, but my understanding is it has been deactivated on T6 to save them from future problems.  They have the nice Ford pick-up 4-man cab formerly B6 sitting idle over at 9's.  They should put that at 6's and let it run the crew on the medical aids.  My 2 cents.

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I like how our discussions about the happenings in East County begin to differ from what the original thread was about.  Someday we need to start a thread titled "East County Updates".  But in the meantime:

 

Lakeside runs the Telesquirt as E202S.  The dept. will not be buying another Squirt as all the Engines will be in the Smeals. 2 more are expected to be delivered soon.

 

We can play the "what if" game when it comes to who East County should have consolidated with.  Yes, great thing that a local dept was able to allow East County to join them, but look at the position they are in now.  If East County didn't get an offer by anyone local, then they would have gone Cal Fire.  Or the same if they partnered with Lakeside or Alpine; they could have gone Cal Fire due to money running out quick.  It was a very unfortunate circumstance however the communities of Crest and Bostonia still have an ALS Engine in their first-due.  

 

Now Rescue51 this may shock you so hold on to your hat, but your wish may come true for El Cajon.  Word is is that El Cajon may no longer provide Ambulance services.  They will cut the 3 Ambulances and AMR will come in.  Currently El Cajon is down 5 members so no one will have to worry about losing their jobs.  Now what will happen if this goes through is that E6,E8,T6 will be staffed by 4 personel not 3.  There will also be a Squad put into service at Station 6 staffed by 2 FF/PM's to run Medical Calls.  

 

To think if El Cajon gets rid of their 3 boxes, what will happen to Lakeside and Santee?  Well the idea is the other 2 will drop transportation services as well or have a cooperative agreement with AMR so Santee and Lakeside will have AMR coverage when LKS and SNT's Ambulances are on calls.  

 

I see Santee receiving a new Truck sometime in the near future.  I'm trying to remember correctly, but wasn't the current T4 bought under the LA City/Simon-Duplex bid when they had Trucks delivered?  If I'm wrong, I can still see Santee hopping in on the LAFD bid with Pierce and getting a Pierce Tiller out of the deal.  

 

I'm sorry, but it is a pet-peeve of mine when it is suggested that a dept lose a specialty rig for a standard Engine.  R5 is not only a resource to Santee as a Rescue, but it is also a key resource to the surrounding areas. If you really think about the whole county and the "dedicated" Rescues, in my opinion there isn't enough.  Truck's in the county are most often used as a "Rescue" resource depending on what dept. you are with.  When there is a Rescue Response in El Cajon, the T6 is used.  But if you go to Lakeside, R3 is used.  It varies by dept.  But when you have a resource like R5 that functions as a Rescue, L&A, and confined space&trench rescue, it's a resource that you can't do without.  Take a map of the County and plot where there are dept's running Rescues.  Now use a technical rescue response happening in the county and take away those resources because they are dedicated to that response.  Example is when there was a man that fell into a well in Potrero.  SNT R5 T4, SMG R15, CHV USAR53, and I believe SND USAR41 was enroute.  This doesn't include SDCFA Rescues that responded. What did an incident like that do to the County's resources of Rescues available?  What if there were 2 incidents running at the same time?  In my opinion, if Santee was to purchase a new rig for R5, it should be the size of USAR41 with the same amount of equipment on it.  R5 is not a resource to be replaced with a Rescue Engine or a standard Engine. 

 

And to continue with what you said Rescue51 about "departments need to economize their dollars", why do think that is?  I won't go into a political rant, but some departments are forced to do this because they don't get as much of the pie as they should.  If you have a specialty resource like R5 and you take that away to "save money", then it will be very difficult in the future to purchase one again.  Depts. are forced to do more with less in this day in age so why bother getting rid of the current resources you have?

Edited by lkseng3

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Lkseng3 do you know is the El Cajon ambulance program a victim of billing problems, as in not getting paid, also suspect your right about the Lakeside/santee/CSA69 medics. Also I agree Crest and Bostonia served better by Cal Fire/SMFPD then having ambulances

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Hi 'Lkseng3', good points for sure!   Interesting news on ECFD and medic boxes (which are some of the nicer ones around).  I was hoping it would go the other way, where Heartland Fire & Rescue would do a consolidation of the medic resources in East County, and run them all under one umbrella including those where AMR operates.  But that's an incredible undertaking, with too much political cross-current to make it work (I suppose).

 

I am not at all an advocate of getting rid of rescue resources, for technical rescue specialty to running standard rescue utility truck rigs for medical aids and TC's, call it a "squad."  It makes so much more $ense in my humble opinion to invest in a small rescue if that needs to be, run it on all that stuff the truck is running on for medical aids.  I know I've been a  parrot on that issue for sometime.  All the miles, wear, and thus out-of-service days, for instance, ECFD's T6 has, is costly and takes a key resource off the run card (excuse the old dispatch talk). 

 

As to Santee, their R5 is a great technical rescue for East County, and my suggestion about what could happen with a new T4 and putting the rescue on that, while taking the R5 staff and having them man a pumper (which Santee already has, albeit this would reduce their reserve engine fleet), seemed to me something they 'COULD' do to solve some issues within Santee.  The former Santee chief told me they will not be replacing R5 for a long time, if at all.  The next replacement will be the truck.  Some FF's out of 4's want a quint. 

 

I agree our East County rescue resources seem less than days back.  But then take a look at San Diego FD, prior to USAR41 coming on-line, I believe the only rescue they had was R4 (heavy rescue) out of downtown.  The trucks carry jaws and some other tools, and can handle most the rescue demands (from TC's), but I always thought SDFD was rescue weak.  I know Miramar has a rescue and they are often going into San Diego City proper, I think they were in UTC just last week (TC on the I-5).   If our county/city has a major event (a, let's just say a quake), we're gonna want as much rescue as we can have.  As a result of the auto-aids going on, I know the newer La Mesa Rescue-Engine 12, is running many more calls into San Diego City, mostly MED-AID calls, but also a bunch of rescue responses too.  And La Mesa serves to highlight where I see the trends going, LMFD has Rescue 11 for years, and now that is gone, the station's rescue tools are on the truck, and then they added Rescue-Engine 12.

 

Back to medical aid calls, I have long thought this entire paradigm for service needs a major overhaul.  Way too many nose bleeds, 5150's, 1A's, general weakness, nose hairs, headaches, Viagra issues, tooth filling failures, and more, and the problem is growing exponentially.  I attribute it to many factors, some I'll leave out, others that the ALS/BLS resources are now Uber, I mean taxi cabs. It seems the triage at dispatch with the assignment of appropriate resources, is not happening in East County like other agencies (including SDF&R).  Often, let's say in El Cajon, T6 and M6 (or M3, or M5, or wherever they can find the medic resource) will go out on the toothache call and T6 gets cancelled by medics, or vice versa, and then someone requests Aid-6.  So the call is triaged at-scene, but all those resources still responded, whether code or not, not sure.   I understand the liability issues, and wanting to protect budgets, but at some point we have to admit this current WAY is going to bankrupt someone.   There are so many EMT companies, for instance, in East County, did the rotation system I thought Heartland used at one time not work?  On the calls downgraded by effective triage at dispatch, dispatch a qualified EMT resource on rotation, let them handle the billing.  If they need it upgraded to ALS, then do it on their assessment, or need manpower for patient weight/lifting, you can still get an engine and ALS rig.  But the resources for fire would not be over-burdened as they are now.   OR, look at the type system LA County Fire uses with the squad rigs with a paramedic and FF, or 2 medics, dispatch that with a box from a commercial resource.  The problem I see is if the public agencies don't figure out a way to manage this part of the service differently, and sooner-than-later, we will lose it, and much of the function will be privatized. 

 

Or, we could go back to the old way like in La Mesa and San Diego, just let the darn PD handle the medical aids and run old Ford Econoline vans on the runs.  :o

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