codethree

San Diego Fire Rapid Response Squads

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Looks like San Diego's pilot program for squads has begun. Hearing Squad-55 dispatched in Station 32's district over the past few days.  Anyone know what sort of rigs they are using?

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Don't know but I've been advocating for years to some of the fire boards, chiefs and BC's, that it makes no $ense at all to be rolling big trucks on BLS medical aids that they often do.  It seems no one wants to listen to the logic I've offered about safety risks, wear-and-tear, costs, excessive depreciation of an expensive asset (trucks).   It makes much more sense in most spheres to run a squad rig on the medical aids, cross-staffed by the truck crew.  It makes sense to have a dedicated rescue rig and spend the money on that rig, to help reduce the friction to the truck, and run the rescue on the medicals.  It then makes even more sense to run a reserve pumper on the medical aids by truck crew, than running the truck.  The counter-argument to what I've been proposing is then they are not staffed-up on a truck/quint, and if a structure response is dispatched, then they either cannot respond or have to go swap rigs.  Statistically, there are so many more medical aids runs, so few structure fires, and even when there is a structure response, the rate of actual working fire where you need truck for ventilation or aerial operations is relatively rare compared to all the calls the trucks rolls on for manpower only, but the truck is not appropriate.  Example, El Cajon (Heartland Fire & Rescue) has had excessive repair issues on a fine truck (Pierce aerial with platform, no tank/pump).  Firefighters and BC's have told me they truck is too busy on medical aids.  Many apartments are in El Cajon, so they often have to park a distance and walk in.  So much of the time the truck has been down due to excessive wear & tear then subsequent maintenance/checks, they would have missed using that asset best used for working structure fires.   Something needs to change in the thinking of using trucks, code-3, transporting manpower to medical aids that are too often BLS level. 

Edited by Rescue51

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Rescue 51

 

You are absolutely correct, the expensive engines and aerials (round figures $500,000 and $ 1 million respectively)

are being run in to the ground on medicals(75 to 80% of all emergency fire calls) Some more deep thought has to be given to this situation to come up with alternative ways to reduce the wear on these expensive apparatus.

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Everyone always makes a big deal about fire engines and trucks going on medicals call. We all know that its about the WHAT IFS which is why things are done the way they are. I have been dispatched before to medical calls that turned out to be a working structure fire. now call it a dispatch error or cad error who knows. but just imagine if we rolled up in a squad with smoke and fire showing from a structure. I know this rarely happens but it still can.my only solution would be to run squads is hire more firefighters or maybe just EMTs to run the squad and respond only to medical calls. down side is the $$$$$.

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You have to remember that San Diego City triages the calls and then cancels fire depending on the Level of the call.  Many times, the Engine or Truck gets canceled on the Level 3 and 4 calls that can be handled by a Rural Metro ALS or BLS.  The Squad Program ran by SDFD was a proposal that was put into effect with the new Mayor in an effort to better response times in the Lincoln Park, Encanto, and Paradise Hills areas until new stations were built.  

 

Now I'm not totally aware of the system LAFD uses, but I do know that some stations that house an ALS and BLS have those respond together to medical aids in their area.  No Engines or Trucks will respond unless there is a second medical aid in their district.  (If I am totally wrong about this, can someone please enlighten me on the subject?)

 

Now it was a great idea that Heartland added a BLS ambulance at Station 6 to allow for the department to handle BLS transports and not have to rely on a private BLS company to handle them.  Now what I think could be a good idea is have a system like LA does.  Have an ALS and BLS at 6's,8's, and 9's and have them run the medical calls.  It should be able to put less milage and use on the apparatus and be more beneficial to replace the boxes every couple years.  Just my 2 cents.  This is all hypothetical and we won't know until some kind of pilot program is developed.  

Edited by lkseng3

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It makes good $ense to do build up more BLS rigs and respond 'em as you said, with ALS rig until call gets triaged. If BLS they release ALS and of course if acute or heavy patient, BLS guys/gals there. For a while Santee 4's truck crew was using Brush-4 to roll on MED-AIDS (think T4 was up and running). That makes more sense than code in TDA for foot pain or psych 5149.5. Look at Heartland Fire & Resue and rise in MED-AIDS with no medics available. This trend continues as does more wear on expensive firefighting apparatus. Years ago Crest and I believe then Bostonia ran BLS boxes (Aid-18 + Aid-19), EMT/BLS and they relieved system demand/overload. Aid-6 is helpful but often commit ed when requested. With all the EMT privates around town, why can't more run BLS?

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Though I am not 100 % familiar with LAFDs dispatching they often will send both an ALS and BLS ambulance to call.

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LAFD has a tiered dispatch system. It basically dispatches on 1. Level of call and 2. who is available for dispatch. For instance, on a basic level BLS incident, we will dispatch a BLS ambulance (800 or 900 series RA). An upgraded BLS will get an ALS Truck, Engine or RA along with a BLS ambulance. The Paramedic on the Fire resource will then determine if the call need to be upgraded. For an ALS incident, you will get the closest ALS resource & transport.

 

Hope that helps

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is san diego running these units 24/7. I know several cities in orange county are now running peek time paramedic squads between the hours of 7am to 7 pm m-f

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Squad 55 is staffed from 0800-2000 with one Captain and 1 FF, one of which must be a medic.

 

It is quartered at a temporary station near Imperial and 55th.

 

The unit was first in to a structure fire today in 32's area.

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Related to this topic in some ways, recall back in the early 1990's Santee FD took delivery of an E-One Hurricane with an extended cab (really BIG cab).  It was assigned as Engine 4.  The plan was to use it as a transporting pumper, that is, the BOX in the pumper, for patient transport.  At the time it seemed innovative (Santee was once a very progressive agency).   I did not think the idea was a good one, but other departments outside California (I think one in Florida) was experimenting on have the fire rig first responders do patient transports too.  Around the same time Santee took delivery of I believe a Chevy Kodiak and was planning on trying to get the "heavy rescue" qualification and a HazMat too!  They underestimated the costs of both, and Rescue 4 was I believe never any level above "medium rescue."  Later they got the Pierce (Saber?) walk-around rescue, assigned to Station 5 and again planned on going "heavy rescue" but never were able to...I don't know if it was staffing or tools, but heard they staff only 2-3 on Rescue 5.  Santee does have good trench and confined space rescue capacity in our area.  They have a support trailer with a pick-up truck, for much of the lumber for shoring purposes. 

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Howdy all!

 

If i remember right the city signed an extension with R/M for another year.

SDFR chief Mainar wants to get the ambulance transport with in the FD but now they have wait to bid once R/Ms contract expires.

AMR also intersted as well.

So we'll see what happens with that.

Ah yes engines with gurney and transport.

Palo Alto (CA) FD has done that for years.

That Santee Eone was a beast i have i pic of it somewhere in my photo album.

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Thanks for that info ""FF Buff One".   I do not believe it is cost effective nor efficient, to use a pumper for patient transport.  The pumpers/trucks are specialized for fire suppression.  The rigs co$t lots of money these day, to acquire, then to maintain.  If a pumper is doing a patient transport and you have a working fire assignment, now you have a critical rig unavailable due to en route to hospital.  Current EMS 911 demand conditions/trends are not good, as increasingly our population is using 911 for emergency medicals, ALS level, but way too many people abuse the 911 system and use emergency first-responders as taxi cabs to the hospital.  I believe the entire EMS system needs to be re-thought and re-worked.   If we don't do this, the costs and commitments might over burden the system. 

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I have seen sq55 posted several times on the San Diego Fire Rescue CAD but there are other units on there I'm assuming cooperating agencies that I do not know what the designators are, does someone from that area have a comprehensive resource list based on the CAD Page?

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the city of Anaheim is using almost the identical squads at squads 1,3,6. I will see if I can grab some pics this week

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Squad 55 was formerly assigned to ERT1. It is a Ford F450 with an Air-Kwik light firefighting system. Has a small amount of water and foam. Basic firefighting handtools. ALS medical gear. Crew of 2.

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Thanks for the call.  I got so excited, I only saw "San Diego" and assumed those were for SDFD.  What is San Diego Fire Authority going to do with those rigs, are they "patrol" type?

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